Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

Discussions on a ranges of philosophical issues including the nature of truth and reality, personal identity, mind-body theories, epistemology, justification of beliefs, argumentation and logic, philosophy of religion, free will and determinism, etc.
Kenny
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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#136

Post by Kenny » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:38 am

Philip wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:52 pm
Ken: The idea that material has existed eternally sounds reasonable to me. Do you agree?
Define "material."
Any thing known to have an actual existence.
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#137

Post by Kenny » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:39 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:37 am
Kenny wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:42 pm
PaulSacramento wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:35 am
Kenny wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:27 am
PaulSacramento wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:53 am


Nope, we are basically stating what we KNOW to be factual, which is that something material can't be eternal. You know why, right?
No; that's what you are saying. I'm saying just because I have never witnessed it, doesn't mean it is impossible. However; if you know for a fact that material cannot be eternal, by all means; please present your facts.
Material is made up of what?
Are those things eternal?
I don’t know the answer to your question however seems to me something has to be eternal right right?
Something, yes BUT as you mentioned ( not aware of any material thing that is eternal), there is no evidence that this "something" is material.
We aren't talking about what I am aware of or what there is actual evidence of, were talking about what seems possible.
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"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#138

Post by Storyteller » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:34 am

Kenny wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:32 am
PaulSacramento wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:08 am
So something eternal can NOT be material, yes?
If we are going to assume that because I have never heard of it, therefore it does not exist; then we must dismiss the possibility of anything outside of the material world as well; to include your spiritual world. Are you sure this is the direction you want to take this?
Ken..
Are you not assuming God doesn't exist because you see no proof?
If you told me you had a pet unicorn I'd probably not believe you but does that mean that I can say, absolutely, they don't exist?

Something eternal has to be unmoving, unchangeable. Material things are not eternal. Material things have a beginning and an end.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#139

Post by Kenny » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:55 am

Kenny wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:32 am
PaulSacramento wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:08 am
So something eternal can NOT be material, yes?
If we are going to assume that because I have never heard of it, therefore it does not exist; then we must dismiss the possibility of anything outside of the material world as well; to include your spiritual world. Are you sure this is the direction you want to take this?
Storyteller wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:34 am
Ken..
Are you not assuming God doesn't exist because you see no proof?
Well.... that and the description sounds contradictory to me also.
Storyteller wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:34 am
If you told me you had a pet unicorn I'd probably not believe you but does that mean that I can say, absolutely, they don't exist?
Depending on how I describe said Unicorn, I think it would be perfectly reasonable to claim they don't exist
Storyteller wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:34 am
Something eternal has to be unmoving, unchangeable.
If you've never seen or experienced something eternal, are you really qualified to say this?
Storyteller wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:34 am
Material things are not eternal. Material things have a beginning and an end.
Again; how do you know this? Most of the things classified as material you have never experienced; so how do you know?
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#140

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:13 am

Again; how do you know this? Most of the things classified as material you have never experienced; so how do you know?
How do we know that Martial things are not unmoving, unchangable and eternal?
Well, there is the FACT that NO material thing, that we know of, IS that.
AND there is also the fact that the very nature of material things makes them Movable, Changable and finite.

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#141

Post by Kenny » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:47 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:13 am
Again; how do you know this? Most of the things classified as material you have never experienced; so how do you know?
How do we know that Martial things are not unmoving, unchangable and eternal?
Well, there is the FACT that NO material thing, that we know of, IS that.
That we KNOW of? We're talking about that 96% that we don't know of.
PaulSacramento wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:13 am
AND there is also the fact that the very nature of material things makes them Movable, Changable and finite.
Do you consider yourself qualified to make such a statement on all things material?
Why do you speak of facts when it comes to the material world, but you are okay with faith when it comes to the spiritual world? Isn't that a little inconsistent? If you gonna employ faith, why not have some concerning the material world too?
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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#142

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:27 am

Ken,
You are being intellectually lazy.
There is no evidence that leads us to believe that material things are unchangeable, unmovable and eternal and there is abundant evidence AND facts that tell us otherwise.

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#143

Post by Kenny » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:28 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:27 am
Ken,
You are being intellectually lazy.
There is no evidence that leads us to believe that material things are unchangeable, unmovable and eternal and there is abundant evidence AND facts that tell us otherwise.
There is no evidence that leads us to believe that the spiritual world even exists; let alone is unchangeable, unmovable, and eternal.
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#144

Post by RickD » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:05 pm

Kenny wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:28 am
PaulSacramento wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:27 am
Ken,
You are being intellectually lazy.
There is no evidence that leads us to believe that material things are unchangeable, unmovable and eternal and there is abundant evidence AND facts that tell us otherwise.
There is no evidence that leads us to believe that the spiritual world even exists; let alone is unchangeable, unmovable, and eternal.
Here, FIFY:
There is no evidence that leads us ME to believe that the spiritual world even exists; let alone is unchangeable, unmovable, and eternal.
If you choose to ignore the evidence, that's your prerogative. But please don't include the rest of "us" in your spiritual blindness.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#145

Post by Kenny » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:45 pm

RickD wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:05 pm
Kenny wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:28 am
PaulSacramento wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:27 am
Ken,
You are being intellectually lazy.
There is no evidence that leads us to believe that material things are unchangeable, unmovable and eternal and there is abundant evidence AND facts that tell us otherwise.
There is no evidence that leads us to believe that the spiritual world even exists; let alone is unchangeable, unmovable, and eternal.
Here, FIFY:
There is no evidence that leads us ME to believe that the spiritual world even exists; let alone is unchangeable, unmovable, and eternal.
If you choose to ignore the evidence, that's your prerogative. But please don't include the rest of "us" in your spiritual blindness.
When Paul said "us" I assumed he meant mankind rather than the people who visit this forum
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#146

Post by abelcainsbrother » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:05 pm

This is what happens when a person chooses to live out there life as an atheist without any evidence they are correct.Kenny here just goes on his personal opinion and because he accepted atheism without any evidence it is correct,it has a snow ball roll down the hill effect to where Kenny is basically just saying I have my own personal atheistic opinion and you cannot change my mind.It is just hard headedness really.He is saying my atheistic opinion without any evidence trumps whatever evidence you give for God or the Supernatural. Like I have challenged Kenny to actually stay in a haunted house or haunted place if he doubts the supernatural and yet he will not do it,it seems,and instead just goes on what other atheists say about it,instead of actually experiencing one himself. What can we do to convince people who don't go by evidence but just their own personal opinion?
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#147

Post by Philip » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:16 pm

I never did see Ken respond to why he has zero interest in the research about near death experiences???

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#148

Post by abelcainsbrother » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:48 pm

Philip wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:16 pm
I never did see Ken respond to why he has zero interest in the research about near death experiences???
Yeah,he should,however.From dealing with atheists I have come to realize that when it comes to trying to convince atheists of the supernatural it really does no good to go straight to evidence like near death experiences. First before we can even get them to seriously consider things like near death experiences we must first open their eyes to the supernatural other ways. Which is why I suggested haunted houses and haunted places that atheists need to experience because once they experience a real ghost,spirit,objects moving through the air or objects being moved,orbs flying through the air,poltergiest type activity,etc they will realize there really is supernatural things out there. And the thing is is mediums who are not even Christians deal with haunted houses,etc and so it cannot be seen as evidence for Christianity or God,etc. And it will open their eyes to supernatural things that are very real.We have to just open their eyes first because it is easier to consider near death experiences if you've ever encountered a ghost,etc.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#149

Post by abelcainsbrother » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:01 pm

Ghostbusters. For you.
https://youtu.be/6xX9IRvhbOM
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#150

Post by abelcainsbrother » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:49 pm

I don't know if ya'll remember but I have experienced a real demon.It was when I least expected it too,but I was asleep and was awakened and immediately could feel something sitting on my chest.The lights were out and so it was dark but I could see something sitting on my chest looking right at me,and yet I could not move at all,the more I moved to try to get it off of me the more I realized that I could not move and yet I could see it looking right at me.I have never been so scared in my life because I could feel it on me and yet could not move at all to get it off of me. I yelled out Jesus as loud as I could and it left immediately.I was freaked out but got up and searched my house and nothing or nobody was in it. I thought at first a friend may have been playing a trick on me or something but nobody was in my house and nobody went out my door. And yet I knew what happened was very real and it was not a bad dream.I have experienced bad dreams before and this was not a dream. It freaked me out so much that I started trying to find out what it was. Now as a Christian I had read about demons in the bible but never really took them seriously,etc but I decided to research demonic activity. And I had a friend who was very knowledgeable and had books on just about anything including demonology,etc. So I asked him about it and explained what happened to me. He told me you're not crazy,etc he said there is a demon known as "Mare" and this demon sits on a man's chest when he is asleep and this is where the term "Nightmare" comes from as nightmare is really nothing about a bad dream like so many have been led to believe and it is about waking up and "mare" is sitting on your chest and yet you cannot move,etc.He also said its face resembles a horse which also has to do with its name mare. I then read another book written about demonic attacks against Christians and in the book there were testimonies of other people who experiences demons too like did.And one thing that is common is the fact that you can see them and yet cannot move at all,just like what I experienced.I also learned that Christians have authority over demons and how to fight demon activity and realized that demons really do tremble at the name of Jesus like the bible says because that demon left immediately when I yelled out Jesus.I don't think it was very loud because I could'nt move,but it still worked.'

I don't consider this the same as a haunted house,ghost,etc but it is similar. To be honest the only kind of paranormal activity I have actually experienced as far as a haunted house is orbs flying through the air.I have actually seen them and the person I was with actually video recorded them with their cell phone as we both saw mysterious orbs flying through the air and recorded them and it is on video too. I could show it to you for you to see yourself and yet orbs flying through the air is a common thing with haunted houses and so I know orbs are real.The orbs seem harmless and seem to pose no harm or threat and so I'm not worried but I saw them and know they are real.As I saw them flying through the air and yet they seemed harmless they kindof seemed like some kind of harmless entity just floating through the air toward the person I was with and even me and it was like they went into us if they hit us,and yet was harmless.If you research haunted houses,places,etc you'll see the mention of orbs flying through the air.This was recent too,about a month or two ago. This is why I think atheists should experience it.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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