Infant Baptism

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
User avatar
UsagiTsukino
Valued Member
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:10 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution

Infant Baptism

Post by UsagiTsukino »

Many reject infant saying infants are too young and also state Jesus himself was not baptism until he was 30. So is infant baptism biblical
User avatar
Nessa
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3590
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:10 pm
Christian: Yes
Creation Position: Undecided

Re: Infant Baptism

Post by Nessa »

UsagiTsukino wrote:Many reject infant saying infants are too young and also state Jesus himself was not baptism until he was 30. So is infant baptism biblical
You can dedicate your child to God. We did this with Caleb but he will have to make his own choice oneday to be saved.
User avatar
RickD
Make me a Sammich Member
Posts: 22063
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen

Re: Infant Baptism

Post by RickD »

If infant baptism is good enough for the Catholic Church, it's good enough for me!*


*If anyone thinks I'm serious, let him be anathema.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
crochet1949
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1467
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:04 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist

Re: Infant Baptism

Post by crochet1949 »

Isn't the purpose Of baptism to show to others of the decision that has already been made in the person's heart? Bible teaches baptism by immersion.

And, yes, churches Do have a baby dedication service --the parents bring their child/ toddler/ baby up front of the church and the pastor shares the importance of parents / family members to raise / encourage the child in Godliness , etc. And, then, when the child or whatever age it takes place -- is responsible for their personal decision to accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior.
User avatar
Kurieuo
Honored Member
Posts: 10038
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:25 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Progressive Creationist
Location: Qld, Australia

Re: Infant Baptism

Post by Kurieuo »

Infant Baptism, for many Catholics, is like a safety guard. They're being baptised into the Church, and into Christ as such, on account of which they will be saved should they die.

I recall my mother-in-law was so worried about such for our firstborn, she asked if she might take her into the church to be baptised. Our response, well my response, "hell no". I'm not sure how my wife conveyed such.

We did however dedicate our kids (first two at least) to God with the church we attended. Our latter two (we have four kids), well, I've personally dedicated them -- such is just symbolic as I see matters that one really chooses to raise their children under Christ -- and that to me should be natural to any Christian parent.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
User avatar
Philip
Site Owner
Posts: 9405
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:45 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Betwixt the Sea and the Mountains

Re: Infant Baptism

Post by Philip »

I baptized my oldest child (when he was about eight). And I'm pretty sure it "took!" :D
User avatar
Nicki
Senior Member
Posts: 686
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:36 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: Western Australia
Contact:

Re: Infant Baptism

Post by Nicki »

I don't think it is strictly Biblical, but it's been extrapolated from the Bible that people who come to faith as adults have to be baptised as adults, but that babies with believing parents can be baptised immediately. I used to be pretty scornful about it years ago but someone pointed out to me the story of the jailer in Acts 16 - how he and his whole family were baptised. Of course though they could all have been old enough to understand. Then a Catholic mother (who was definitely Bible-believing, in other words evangelical-leaning) told me a few years ago how it was important to her to have her son baptised - they felt they were welcoming him into God's family.

It's something that I think is not necessary but not really wrong either.
PaulSacramento
Board Moderator
Posts: 9224
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Infant Baptism

Post by PaulSacramento »

Baptism symbolism the bring of one into the convent Of God, the community of the Church of God and community of believers, much like circumcision does to Jews.
Age is not relevant.
While infant baptism brings a child into the fold, the child must still make the "confirmation" of faith later.
User avatar
Nicki
Senior Member
Posts: 686
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:36 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: Western Australia
Contact:

Re: Infant Baptism

Post by Nicki »

PaulSacramento wrote:Baptism symbolism the bring of one into the convent Of God, the community of the Church of God and community of believers, much like circumcision does to Jews.
Age is not relevant.
While infant baptism brings a child into the fold, the child must still make the "confirmation" of faith later.
I've heard about confirmation in Catholicism - but I remember the sister of that Catholic lady I mentioned, who was going to a Baptist church rather than Catholic, saying that her confirmation went right over her head and she had no appreciation of it at all at the time. It seems to be traditional to do it at the age of 14 or so regardless of where the child is at spiritually, whereas believers' baptism is carried out at whatever age the person is ready for it.
PaulSacramento
Board Moderator
Posts: 9224
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Infant Baptism

Post by PaulSacramento »

Nicki wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:Baptism symbolism the bring of one into the convent Of God, the community of the Church of God and community of believers, much like circumcision does to Jews.
Age is not relevant.
While infant baptism brings a child into the fold, the child must still make the "confirmation" of faith later.
I've heard about confirmation in Catholicism - but I remember the sister of that Catholic lady I mentioned, who was going to a Baptist church rather than Catholic, saying that her confirmation went right over her head and she had no appreciation of it at all at the time. It seems to be traditional to do it at the age of 14 or so regardless of where the child is at spiritually, whereas believers' baptism is carried out at whatever age the person is ready for it.
In a nutshell, and not all will agree, the baptism is like the circumcision and the confirmation is like the bar/batmitsvah.
User avatar
Jac3510
Ultimate Member
Posts: 5472
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:53 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Location: Fort Smith, AR
Contact:

Re: Infant Baptism

Post by Jac3510 »

Depends on what you think baptism does. Put more directly, is baptism a sacrament whereby sins (or original in in particular) are washed away/forgiven--that is, does baptism itself have an effect--or is it an external symbol of an already existing internal reality. If the former, then infant baptism is almost certainly biblical. Why deny a child the effect of the baptism (sins forgiven, unification with the body, etc)? If the latter, then infant baptism is almost certainly unbiblical, since there is no internal reality for the baptism to be signifying. On that view, to baptize a child would quite literally be to tell a lie, since you are claiming something of the child that has not happened.
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.
crochet1949
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1467
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:04 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist

Re: Infant Baptism

Post by crochet1949 »

Jac3510 wrote:Depends on what you think baptism does. Put more directly, is baptism a sacrament whereby sins (or original in in particular) are washed away/forgiven--that is, does baptism itself have an effect--or is it an external symbol of an already existing internal reality. If the former, then infant baptism is almost certainly biblical. Why deny a child the effect of the baptism (sins forgiven, unification with the body, etc)? If the latter, then infant baptism is almost certainly unbiblical, since there is no internal reality for the baptism to be signifying. On that view, to baptize a child would quite literally be to tell a lie, since you are claiming something of the child that has not happened.

Baptism is to show Outwardly that which has already taken place in the person Inwardly. When a person believes in his heart and confesses with his mouth -- salvation then takes place. Then comes the outward act of.

When our pastor has a baptisimal service as part of the regular church service -- he shares with the congregation that the baptismal water is simply Taylor city water. It's not holy or blessed or anything special.

If a church baptizes infants to safeguard them until later on. It's more for the parents than for the infant. Because only an older individual can understand right from wrong / as they are taught that. And can make a decision for themselves.

It puts more responsibility on the parents to teach their children.
User avatar
Jac3510
Ultimate Member
Posts: 5472
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:53 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Location: Fort Smith, AR
Contact:

Re: Infant Baptism

Post by Jac3510 »

crochet1949 wrote:Baptism is to show Outwardly that which has already taken place in the person Inwardly. When a person believes in his heart and confesses with his mouth -- salvation then takes place. Then comes the outward act of.

When our pastor has a baptisimal service as part of the regular church service -- he shares with the congregation that the baptismal water is simply Taylor city water. It's not holy or blessed or anything special.
On these points, you and I share a common theology.
If a church baptizes infants to safeguard them until later on. It's more for the parents than for the infant. Because only an older individual can understand right from wrong / as they are taught that. And can make a decision for themselves.

It puts more responsibility on the parents to teach their children.
But this isn't really a fair representation of the beliefs of those who baptize their children. For them, it's not merely "safeguard[ing] them until later" and still less is it "more for the parents." Their theology is that it is very much for the infant, that baptism itself (by the grace of God, of course) is what washes away original sin. Thus, if a child dies unbaptized, then they still die with the stain of original sin on their soul. That's the basis for the belief in Limbo. Now, the Catholic church allows the opinion that Limbo isn't where such children go after all, but it doesn't allow one to say that they know such children are in heaven. Catholicism permits one to say that they have hope that God has provided a way for unbaptized children to be forgiven of original sin even without baptism, but it quickly notes that if that is the case, such a way has not been revealed to the Church.

To be clear, I'm not saying the Catholic church is right or that you should accept that. I am saying that we need to be fair in understanding what their position is. They would object if we said that infant baptism is more for the parents than the children. And having said all that, since any Christian may baptize anyone else, it may very well be that you, personally, could be in a situation in which you were asked to baptize a dying child. And you may very well do so, given your beliefs, more for the parents than for the child. In fact, you might do that whether the child is dying or not, still believing it was more for the kid that for the adults. But even in that case, within the context of paedobaptistic theology, the act is sacramental, not merely symbolic, and itself works to effect a particular grace (the forgiveness of sin) in the life of the child.
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.
Hortator
Advanced Senior Member
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 5:00 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Ohio

Re: Infant Baptism

Post by Hortator »

Basically, a baby is innocent of pretty much anything. So for them, a baptism, or washing away of sins, is redundant.

But hey it's just sprinkling holy water on a baby's forehead. Some sleep right through it, like I did. :lol:
User avatar
Jac3510
Ultimate Member
Posts: 5472
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:53 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Location: Fort Smith, AR
Contact:

Re: Infant Baptism

Post by Jac3510 »

Hortator wrote:Basically, a baby is innocent of pretty much anything. So for them, a baptism, or washing away of sins, is redundant.
Of course, paedobaptists would say you are wrong on this. So they're going to answer the OP differently than you. That's the point I'm trying to make. If you think a baby is innocent of sin, then there's no necessity to baptize. But if a baby is born guilty of (original) sin, and if baptism washes away (original) sin--that is, if baptism is sacramental--then not only is baptizing a baby biblical, indeed, it is necessary and only an evil person would refuse an infant that grace.

I'm not a sacramentalist in my theology nor do I think babies are born guilty of original sin. And based on that, I don't think infant baptism is biblical. But I insist that we recognize the position of those who disagree with us on it.
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.
Post Reply