Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

[jpbg33]

You think you are smart but you are making really big mistakes. Far one if Jesus were here he would not be on the run. No one could kill or hurt Him if He didn't let them.

He didn't run from the cross so it would be stupid to think He would run now.

One of the amazing things about Jesus dying on the cross other then Him paying the price for of our sins is the fact that he could have stoped it at any time but He loved us so much that He didn't.

All He had to do was think stop.

[bbyrd009]

I just checked the moderator logs, and nobody deleted your posts. Sounds like a classic case of user error, brought on by years of psychedelic drug use.

yes, RickD, that is surely all it is. So, being the idiot that i am, i will try again, as you stone me for bringing you a different understanding of Word, no problem.

Stone you? Judging from some of your posts, I don't think you have a problem getting yourself stoned.

when is the last time you were accused of being drunk at 9 am, RickD?

Maybe when you initially "got saved," and talked funny to your old friends, talked religiously, perhaps, having gotten a dose of the tares. At least that's how i started.

See that there are 3 baptisms, ok, water, spirit, and fire; and you have had one, you got born, that was the "water" one, nevermind the ritual water baptism you did, and maybe the ritual spirit one, Paul's "gurgling and cooing," which do not serve you.

My prayer for you is to go find the real, and go get accused of being drunk in the morning, ok bro?

Your comment "At least that's how I started' , suggests that you are a believer. But your attitude Towards God's Word does not exhibit / reflect that. You've had posts where you are very 'wordy' but don't really 'say' anything. And some of your comments are so far out in left field that a person simply sits there and 'shakes their head in wonderment'.

"and talked funny to your old friends , talked religiously, perhaps......" -- well -- if your conversations with 'them' have been like they are Here -- well -- "getting accused of being drunk in the morning"--- I can sort of understand how that could happen.

ok, crochet...but see, now, how you have made that into a bad thing, when in the Book it is an indication of having drunk the wine (blood), ok...

[bbyrd009]

"I am. And you, Caiaphas shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and majesty..." and to his disciples "This generation we are in right now shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled."
<this is Christ, so you must believe that Caiaphas "met Christ in the clouds.">

Of course Jesus never returned in his generation as all the apostles and Paul believed he would and so Christian leaders were left in a conundrum: "What do we do about Jesus not returning as he prophesied he would????""I know, we'll make it a future prophecy yet to be fulfilled." And that' how you and the others fell for it.

<of course, He did return, but this is from an "Atheist," so see what you will see>

The kingdom of Elohim does not come with ocular-visual observation: neither shall they say, "Look, over here!", or "See, there it is over there!", for behold, the kingdom of Elohim is within you, (Luke 17:20-21). Therefore, by the Testimony of Yeshua himself, it comes to each in his or her own appointed times, times appointed of the Father, a day and hour which no man knows.

Luke 19:11-20
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear...

[Stu]

You miss read my post I was not saying that Christians are perfect. I was saying that we are to be Christ like.

Then I said that if Jesus was here then he would be doing the same things as Christians. I know that Christians are not perfect, but what I was referring to was that just as Jesus said if you have seen Me then you have seen the Father. He wasn't really saying that He was the Father but that He was living His life the way the Father would have been living if He was the one that was there. So seeing Jesus in that sense was the same as seeing the Father.

We as Christians are suppose to be Christ like so that if a sinner see us it is as if they have seen Jesus. We are not perfect and we make mistakes some times but that should not be the norm we are to strive to be perfect.

also, we have several, many types of Christ, in the Book, it is possibly naive to even suspect that Christ is not embodied-

What does this mean. What are you saying?

[bbyrd009]

You think you are smart but you are making really big mistakes. Far one if Jesus were here he would not be on the run. No one could kill or hurt Him if He didn't let them.

He didn't run from the cross so it would be stupid to think He would run now.

One of the amazing things about Jesus dying on the cross other then Him paying the price for of our sins is the fact that he could have stoped it at any time but He loved us so much that He didn't.

All He had to do was think stop.

that is a perfectly valid reflection, imo, as far as it goes, but i meant to reflect that Christ did, in fact, elude those who sought to kill him earlier in His Ministry; so don't get me wrong there. We are kind of talking about two different subjects, i think.

Iow, we are the Body of Christ now, and we have many passages that describe this concept of "on the run." "When you are persecuted in one town, flee to another," et al.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
this has nothing to do with that, prolly, i just need to dump this somewhere, to get it out of "copy," so i can use copy for something else.

daqq
1 Corinthians 15:39-47 ASV
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fishes.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 it is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
45 So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46 Howbeit that is not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; then that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: [Genesis 2:7] the second man is of heaven [Genesis 1:26-27].

Thus the second man from the heavens, that is, in Messiah, that one is called "very good", (Genesis 1:31), and indeed has now been given dominion over the fish of the sea, (for Messiah is the ultimate "fisher of men" and taught his disciples and apostles to do the same by the Word of Elohim), and has likewise been given dominion over the fowls of the heavens and the air, (for they are the Wicked one, the Devil, and the Satan, the Parable of the Sower in its three Synoptic Gospel companion chapters), and has been given dominion over the behemah-beasts, (for example, the lioness, the she-bear robbed of her cubs, the leopardess, and the fourth beast dreadful and terrible, Hosea 13, Revelation 13, Daniel 7, [Septuagint], and rams, lambs, and goats, [Daniel 8], and all clean beasts), and is thus given dominion over all his land, (for every man has his land which is the house-body-temple, the "helpmate" of an earthen vessel, and every man is likened to a house, Matthew 12:43-45, Luke 11:24-26), and is even given dominion over all the "creepers" that creep upon his land, ("the flesh", with all of its attributes, wherein nothing good dwells, Romans 7:14-25), because the new creation man in Messiah believes and applies the Testimony of Yeshua to both his doctrine and himself. Those who do not will never take dominion over such things because they see it as ridiculously literal and physical in meaning while ignoring the all important Testimony of Yeshua.

It is not about the creation of the literal physical world because unto Elohim YOU are the world and created to be in communion with Him, to be His holy Temple, (anyone who is of a willing heart).

2 Corinthians 5:16-17
16 Wherefore, from now on, we know nothing-no one according to the flesh: and even if we have known Messiah according to the flesh, contrariwise, now we know him yet no more [as such].
17 Therefore, if anyone be in Messiah, the same is a new creation-creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new [Revelation 21:5-6].

[bbyrd009]

You miss read my post I was not saying that Christians are perfect. I was saying that we are to be Christ like.

Then I said that if Jesus was here then he would be doing the same things as Christians. I know that Christians are not perfect, but what I was referring to was that just as Jesus said if you have seen Me then you have seen the Father. He wasn't really saying that He was the Father but that He was living His life the way the Father would have been living if He was the one that was there. So seeing Jesus in that sense was the same as seeing the Father.

We as Christians are suppose to be Christ like so that if a sinner see us it is as if they have seen Jesus. We are not perfect and we make mistakes some times but that should not be the norm we are to strive to be perfect.

also, we have several, many types of Christ, in the Book, it is possibly naive to even suspect that Christ is not embodied-

What does this mean. What are you saying?

oh...just that Adam, Melchizedek, Moses, Sampson, David, prolly some others i missed, are acknowledged to be "types" of Christ, shadows, reflections, iow.

[jpbg33]

Jesus wasn't hiding from people in the bible. If you read the bible you will see that there was times that people tryed to attack him and He escaped but He wasn't running from anyone. The one time I remember reading He was being attacked he did not run he just walked though the crowd. He didn't run you couldn't attack him if he didn't let you and if you remember when they came to get Him to crucify Him and the people that came to arrest Him asked if He was Jesus and He said I am He I think that was what He said but when He said that they all fell to the ground. Those people could not have taken Him if he didn't let them.

One other mistake you just made was Jesus did not say He was going to return in that generation he was talking to right then you are miss reading thoes scriptures. Jesus was talking about the Jews becoming a nation again in the last days and then He said that generation will not pass away until He comes back. He was talking about the the nation of Israel that would come together in the future not the generation He was talking to right then.

Also when He was talking to His disciples he told them that they would die before He came back. Jesus didn't ever say He was going to return in that generation.

[Stu]

You miss read my post I was not saying that Christians are perfect. I was saying that we are to be Christ like.

Then I said that if Jesus was here then he would be doing the same things as Christians. I know that Christians are not perfect, but what I was referring to was that just as Jesus said if you have seen Me then you have seen the Father. He wasn't really saying that He was the Father but that He was living His life the way the Father would have been living if He was the one that was there. So seeing Jesus in that sense was the same as seeing the Father.

We as Christians are suppose to be Christ like so that if a sinner see us it is as if they have seen Jesus. We are not perfect and we make mistakes some times but that should not be the norm we are to strive to be perfect.

also, we have several, many types of Christ, in the Book, it is possibly naive to even suspect that Christ is not embodied-

What does this mean. What are you saying?

oh...just that Adam, Melchizedek, Moses, Sampson, David, prolly some others i missed, are acknowledged to be "types" of Christ, shadows, reflections, iow.

Those men weren't like Jesus.

Jesus was sin-free. He was pure.
Some might have been good men, but you can't really compare them on that level. Men are sinful.

[bbyrd009]

You miss read my post I was not saying that Christians are perfect. I was saying that we are to be Christ like.

Then I said that if Jesus was here then he would be doing the same things as Christians. I know that Christians are not perfect, but what I was referring to was that just as Jesus said if you have seen Me then you have seen the Father. He wasn't really saying that He was the Father but that He was living His life the way the Father would have been living if He was the one that was there. So seeing Jesus in that sense was the same as seeing the Father.

We as Christians are suppose to be Christ like so that if a sinner see us it is as if they have seen Jesus. We are not perfect and we make mistakes some times but that should not be the norm we are to strive to be perfect.

also, we have several, many types of Christ, in the Book, it is possibly naive to even suspect that Christ is not embodied-

What does this mean. What are you saying?

oh...just that Adam, Melchizedek, Moses, Sampson, David, prolly some others i missed, are acknowledged to be "types" of Christ, shadows, reflections, iow.

Those men weren't like Jesus.

Jesus was sin-free. He was pure.
Some might have been good men, but you can't really compare them on that level. Men are sinful.

well, i don't mean to say that they were Christ, understand, but that they are acknowledged to be allegorical types for Christ, you can search this concept, ask google, and get more learned opinions than mine, ok. The point being that whenever the Book presents someone with "supernatural" strength, they are either a type of Christ, or of satan. David, Christ; Goliath, satan. Melchizedek is pretty much a direct type of Christ, Christ is "after the order of Melchizedek:"

1For this Melchizedek —

King of Salem, priest of the Most High God,
who met Abraham and blessed him
as he returned from defeating the kings,
2and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything;
first, his name means king of righteousness,
then also, king of Salem,
meaning king of peace;
3without father, mother, or genealogy,
having neither beginning of days nor end of life,
but resembling the Son of God —

http://biblehub.com/hebrews/7.htm

so, understand that the Book is making this connection, and the similar (but different) connections can also be made to the others i mentioned.

These are not replacements for Christ's sacrifice, ok, understand, they are more allegory to help one grasp Christ imo. Moses might be just the guy who led some Hebrews out of Egypt, free men, to you, right now, but reflecting further on the story, one comes to see that Moses also led a bunch of people into the desert to die (interestingly, all those who needed the "Snake on a Pole, Nehushtan; but now i am almost saying too much). Only 2 made it. Moses didn't even "make it," right? Although, he was a Witness, the "3rd" (a rope of 3 cords is not easily broken), from a "Mountain-top" (so, plenty of symbolism going on there, too), to the 2 going in (who, i will tell you, are both you). And these reflections are shied away from, or disregarded, to one reading at one stage, but become significant later, when one accepts all the verses that they initially apply to everyone else--as "church" suggests for us--for themselves.

not to put down churches, or even Apostasy, ok, i don't mean that.

[bbyrd009]

see how Moses seems to be "denied," yet Moses is the one caught up to heaven, from a mountain top? So, i have just now, been given that, and have no idea what to do with that now, the point being that there are many, many layers to every Bible passage, many ways of understanding better.

We are told to pick up our crosses and follow, and presented with what appear to me to be at least "3," maybe even "4" choices ("4" being another impotant symbolic number, 4 directions, 4 horsemen, 4 faces, generally understood to rep "all of mankind"), those being, Stay a slave, Walk out of Egypt free and die in the wilderness, Make it to the PL, or...i guess, pick up your cross and follow Christ. hmm. wow. surreal.

[crochet1949]

see how Moses seems to be "denied," yet Moses is the one caught up to heaven, from a mountain top? So, i have just now, been given that, and have no idea what to do with that now, the point being that there are many, many layers to every Bible passage, many ways of understanding better.

We are told to pick up our crosses and follow, and presented with what appear to me to be at least "3," maybe even "4" choices ("4" being another impotant symbolic number, 4 directions, 4 horsemen, 4 faces, generally understood to rep "all of mankind"), those being, Stay a slave, Walk out of Egypt free and die in the wilderness, Make it to the PL, or...i guess, pick up your cross and follow Christ. hmm. wow. surreal.

Moses was told to go to the top of the mountain to talk with God -- given the 10 Commandments -- was enveloped in a cloud. Look at Exodus 19:16 - 20:23 or so. Key verses 19:18 - 20.

God came to the mountain top to talk with Moses.

[bbyrd009]

see how Moses seems to be "denied," yet Moses is the one caught up to heaven, from a mountain top? So, i have just now, been given that, and have no idea what to do with that now, the point being that there are many, many layers to every Bible passage, many ways of understanding better.

We are told to pick up our crosses and follow, and presented with what appear to me to be at least "3," maybe even "4" choices ("4" being another impotant symbolic number, 4 directions, 4 horsemen, 4 faces, generally understood to rep "all of mankind"), those being, Stay a slave, Walk out of Egypt free and die in the wilderness, Make it to the PL, or...i guess, pick up your cross and follow Christ. hmm. wow. surreal.

Moses was told to go to the top of the mountain to talk with God -- given the 10 Commandments -- was enveloped in a cloud. Look at Exodus 19:16 - 20:23 or so. Key verses 19:18 - 20.

God came to the mountain top to talk with Moses.

that is a different occurrence, and now you are sending me into the realization that i need to go seek all of Moses' mountaintop experiences. I was referring to the final one, and there are "3" that immediately come to mind. hmm.

[bbyrd009]

You miss read my post I was not saying that Christians are perfect. I was saying that we are to be Christ like.

Then I said that if Jesus was here then he would be doing the same things as Christians. I know that Christians are not perfect, but what I was referring to was that just as Jesus said if you have seen Me then you have seen the Father. He wasn't really saying that He was the Father but that He was living His life the way the Father would have been living if He was the one that was there. So seeing Jesus in that sense was the same as seeing the Father.

We as Christians are suppose to be Christ like so that if a sinner see us it is as if they have seen Jesus. We are not perfect and we make mistakes some times but that should not be the norm we are to strive to be perfect.

also, we have several, many types of Christ, in the Book, it is possibly naive to even suspect that Christ is not embodied-

What does this mean. What are you saying?

oh...just that Adam, Melchizedek, Moses, Sampson, David, prolly some others i missed, are acknowledged to be "types" of Christ, shadows, reflections, iow.

Those men weren't like Jesus.

Jesus was sin-free. He was pure.
Some might have been good men, but you can't really compare them on that level. Men are sinful.

See Gospel harmony based on John
Jesus = Samson = Jonah-Than = Jonah swallowed by a Than (shark)
http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/At-a-gla ... _Bible/201

[bbyrd009]

Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
עָרוּם ʻârûwm, aw-room'; passive participle of H6191; cunning (usually in a bad sense):—crafty, prudent, subtil.
Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon [?]

H6175
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/le ... #lexSearch

[bbyrd009]

So, also Noah, Abel...these are types for Christ.
ref "Flood" in my prev post