Kurieuo wrote:Ask those people who say the Bible says no spirit..., to point out where in Scripture the Bible says. I think Solomon calling back Samual from the dead is evidence against their claim. The Bible appears to lead us to conclude that talking to the dead is a very real possibility.
mlstarner wrote:Kurieuo wrote:Ask those people who say the Bible says no spirit..., to point out where in Scripture the Bible says. I think Solomon calling back Samual from the dead is evidence against their claim. The Bible appears to lead us to conclude that talking to the dead is a very real possibility.
The story of Solomon calling back Samuel can be looked at a couple of different ways.
1 Samuel 28:
4 The Philistines assembled and came and set up camp at Shunem, while Saul gathered all the Israelites and set up camp at Gilboa. 5 When Saul saw the Philistine army, he was afraid; terror filled his heart. 6 He inquired of the LORD, but the LORD did not answer him by dreams or Urim or prophets. 7 Saul then said to his attendants, "Find me a woman who is a medium, so I may go and inquire of her."
"There is one in Endor," they said.
8 So Saul disguised himself, putting on other clothes, and at night he and two men went to the woman. "Consult a spirit for me," he said, "and bring up for me the one I name."
9 But the woman said to him, "Surely you know what Saul has done. He has cut off the mediums and spiritists from the land. Why have you set a trap for my life to bring about my death?"
10 Saul swore to her by the LORD, "As surely as the LORD lives, you will not be punished for this."
11 Then the woman asked, "Whom shall I bring up for you?"
"Bring up Samuel," he said.
12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, "Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!"
13 The king said to her, "Don't be afraid. What do you see?"
The woman said, "I see a spirit [a] coming up out of the ground."
14 "What does he look like?" he asked.
"An old man wearing a robe is coming up," she said.
Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.
15 Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"
"I am in great distress," Saul said. "The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has turned away from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do."
16 Samuel said, "Why do you consult me, now that the LORD has turned away from you and become your enemy? 17 The LORD has done what he predicted through me. The LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your neighbors—to David. 18 Because you did not obey the LORD or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the LORD has done this to you today. 19 The LORD will hand over both Israel and you to the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The LORD will also hand over the army of Israel to the Philistines."
20 Immediately Saul fell full length on the ground, filled with fear because of Samuel's words. His strength was gone, for he had eaten nothing all that day and night.
Not once does the "spirit" identify himself as Samuel - it is assumed by Saul that he Samuel. Also, in verses 16-19, the spirit's message is one of despair and hopelessness - not something you would expect as a message from God delivered by one of his servants.
While it is certainly possible for God to have intervened and sent Samuel back from the dead to talk to Saul, it seems more likely that it was an evil spirit posing as Samuel.
Something to remember is that while the Bible seems pretty clear that when we die, we're instantly in heaven/hell (Think about the thief on the cross when Jesus says "Today you will be with me in paradise"), Satan and his evil angels are very capable of masquerading as deceased individuals. Remember - their goal is to distract us from the light of Christ and one way to accomplish that is to pretend that they are messengers from beyond the grave.
Kurieuo wrote: it is Scripture itself identifying the spirit as Samuel and there nothing contrary in the text to justify believing otherwise.
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