Michael

Discussions about the Bible, and any issues raised by Scripture.
thatkidakayoungguy
Senior Member
Posts: 645
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:44 pm
Christian: Yes

Michael

Postby thatkidakayoungguy » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:08 pm

What role as an angel does he have? He seems to be an important and powerful angel.

IceMobster
Senior Member
Posts: 620
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:17 pm
Christian: No
Sex: Male
Location: Europe

Re: Michael

Postby IceMobster » Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:53 pm

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:What role as an angel does he have? He seems to be an important and powerful angel.
Hmmm, I don't know, but, angelology is pretty interesting. Some theologians claim angels do not exist, though.

Another interesting thing to think about is whether angels have free will or not. If they do not, those who choose Christ are above them. For they freely choose Christ where angels are under direct God's will and do not have their own.

On the other hand, if they do have free will, why should we trust any of them? Satan had it and he abused it to the maximum. Also think ouija board where, well, demons pose as dead relatives...
Some might say:"But, but, what if the angel was engulfed in white light, kind, loving, etc.?"
2 Cor 11,14 (And no wonder, for Satan himself disguises as an angel of light)

Hence some say angels do not exist and since noone can look at God and stay alive (Exodus 33,20), God decided to make Himself appear as an angel (not in any heretical sense...) and give that someone a message, a warning or whatever. Well, that's one of the conclusions you can come to...
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for You are with me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGOXMf6yDCU

Fecisti nos ad te, Domine, et inquietum est cor nostrum donec requiescat in te!

User avatar
abelcainsbrother
Ultimate Member
Posts: 4047
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:31 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Gap Theory

Re: Michael

Postby abelcainsbrother » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:35 pm

Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

User avatar
Kurieuo
Technical Admin
Posts: 8708
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:25 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Progressive Creationist
Location: Qld, Australia

Re: Michael

Postby Kurieuo » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:09 pm

Re: Angel free will, it's not that they don't possess free will. Given they are spiritual beings their natures are more raw and true to who they are. Therefore, any decision they make has a direct correspondence to who they are. Thus, they can receive immediate judgement for any choice they make in opposition to God. What do I mean?

Take us humans, who are physical beings in addition to spiritual. Being physical, we get tired, get sick, can be influenced by drugs and alcohol, can suffer from physical addictions that we struggle with, we need to think about things rather than having all our thoughts before us in full at once, we have memories that can be forgotten and a whole host of other influences given we're wired and entwined as both spiritual and physical beings. The result is, who we are can become clouded, such that we might even wonder who is the REAL person that is "me"? We're here in this physical world, often thinking ourselves to be and desiring to be someone we often fail to be in large part due to our physical weaknesses. Yet, equally at times we rise above and put into submission our physical bodies.

When we die, and are raised imperishable, all such weaknesses will no longer exist. We'll be like the angels in this way, and there will be a more direct correspondence with who we are. Who we are, often buried in this current life we live, will become obvious to ourselves and I'm sure others. Yet, it's not that our "free will" has been taken away, nor that angels don't have free will -- rather our decisions and who we are spiritually has a more immediate correlation with who we are.

Hope that made sense.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

___________________

Image

User avatar
abelcainsbrother
Ultimate Member
Posts: 4047
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:31 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Gap Theory

Re: Michael

Postby abelcainsbrother » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:35 pm

Here is what I believe when it comes to angels and the bible knowledge I have.I do believe they have free-will however they all remember Lucifer and him and a third of the angels rebelling and they learned from it so that they will not rebel against God now.I believe God made such a fool of Lucifer that the angels would never rebel against God now.God already tested the angels and they either passed or failed the test and they learned from it.The ones that did rebel were tainted by Lucifer's influence and they were never redeemed from their sin like with man.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

User avatar
Kurieuo
Technical Admin
Posts: 8708
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:25 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Progressive Creationist
Location: Qld, Australia

Re: Michael

Postby Kurieuo » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:52 pm

I'd disagree with the implications of that, on why the angels don't rebel. Rather, those angels who opposed God did so because they were self-seeking and as such incompatible with God's kingdom, whereas those angels who didn't were pure of heart and loved God.

God isn't a dictator who rules by fear. If someone doesn't want to rebel against God simply and only because of what might happen to them, but otherwise they would rebel, then I dare say such will not be found in His kingdom. One can fear God, sure, such is natural if God exists and our lives are in His hands... but one's heart should be desiring of God.

What do I mean and what's the difference? Consider the Jews who made sacrifice to God for forgiveness and atonement. Their sacrifice became hollow and meaningless to God, for their hearts were far from Him (see video below). They were going through the ritual, but the symbol and meaning of such was lost. God wanted their hearts circumcised, not merely a hollow act carried out in their flesh. (Jer 4:4) Now, today, for those who believe, one is circumcised of the heart rather than in the flesh -- the heart is what is important, (Jer 9:25-26; Jer 31:31-34) not simply bowing down for every knee will ultimately bow and confess (Phil 2:10-11; Romans 14:11; Isaiah 45:23-24).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_OlRWGLdnw
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

___________________

Image

User avatar
abelcainsbrother
Ultimate Member
Posts: 4047
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:31 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Gap Theory

Re: Michael

Postby abelcainsbrother » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:31 pm

Kurieuo wrote:I'd disagree with the implications of that, on why the angels don't rebel. Rather, those angels who opposed God did so because they were self-seeking and as such incompatible with God's kingdom, whereas those angels who didn't were pure of heart and loved God.

God isn't a dictator who rules by fear. If someone doesn't want to rebel against God simply and only because of what might happen to them, but otherwise they would rebel, then I dare say such will not be found in His kingdom. One can fear God, sure, such is natural if God exists and our lives are in His hands... but one's heart should be desiring of God.

What do I mean and what's the difference? Consider the Jews who made sacrifice to God for forgiveness and atonement. Their sacrifice became hollow and meaningless to God, for their hearts were far from Him (see video below). They were going through the ritual, but the symbol and meaning of such was lost. God wanted their hearts circumcised, not merely a hollow act carried out in their flesh. (Jer 4:4) Now, today, for those who believe, one is circumcised of the heart rather than in the flesh -- the heart is what is important, (Jer 9:25-26; Jer 31:31-34) not simply bowing down for every knee will ultimately bow and confess (Phil 2:10-11; Romans 14:11; Isaiah 45:23-24).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_OlRWGLdnw


The angels truly love God and I think they are amazed at the things God does and they seem to be intrigued by how God deals with man.We know that everytime somebody gets saved angels rejoice.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

PaulSacramento
Board Moderator
Posts: 7391
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Michael

Postby PaulSacramento » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:37 am

An angel is a messenger ( that is what the name means) and any messenger from God is an angel.
That said, the bible tells us that there are Sons of God (Elohim in the plural) and Angels and while any Elohim can be an angel when doing that role, not every angel is an Elohim.
Michael is called one of the Chief Princes ( Book of Daniel) and an archangel ( Jude) so that does mean He has special status.
From Daniel it seems that Michael was the Chief Prince responsible for Israel ( other Chief princes were responsible for other nations, such as the Prince of Persia in Daniel).

From the bible we know this of Michael:

He is called one of the Chief Princes and that He is responsible for Israel, that He leads the army of God ( Revelation) and that, while powerful, did NOT rebuke Satan ( Jude).

thatkidakayoungguy
Senior Member
Posts: 645
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:44 pm
Christian: Yes

Re: Michael

Postby thatkidakayoungguy » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:28 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
From the bible we know this of Michael:

He is called one of the Chief Princes and that He is responsible for Israel, that He leads the army of God ( Revelation) and that, while powerful, did NOT rebuke Satan ( Jude).

Who is the angel that binds Satan and throws him into the abyss? It doesn't say him specifically but if He leads the army of God, could it be him?

PaulSacramento
Board Moderator
Posts: 7391
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Michael

Postby PaulSacramento » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:18 am

Abaddon, I think, is the one that binds Satan.

User avatar
BigHamster
Recognized Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:10 pm
Christian: Yes

Re: Michael

Postby BigHamster » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:51 pm

For Comparison...

*christian mysticism*

"Our Archangels are eternal holy spiritual entities that serve creation. Major holy spiritual archangels are, for example, the Michael, master of the element of light and fire; Gabriel, master of the element of water; Raphael, master of etheric vitality; and Uriel, coordinator of the other three. Archangels perpetually project angelic elementals -- angels -- to serve creation. There are also logoic archangels, like Yohannan, who are at higher levels of spiritual hierarchy. Human beings are also logoic archangels in the process of awakening into their godly state.

We know of the existence of twelve Archangelic Orders: Thrones, Authorities, Dominions, Principalities, Overlords, Seraphims and Cherubims, along with others named and unnamed.

No one has ever spoken in detail of the kind of vibrations of the Archangels who belong to the higher echelons of the Orders. Few have come close enough to these Orders to attune to them. Human language, in any case, proves inadequate to describe their splendor.

When a human being descends into the worlds of separation, an Archangel of the Thrones accompanies him as his Guardian Archangel. Even if we are unaware of his presence, our Guardian Archangel, with whom we are egofied (united), is always caring for us.

The Archangels of the elements concern us in our research and meditations as they are most intimately involved in our well-being and advancement. Their names are not of human origin, but rather the resonance of each Order's vibration. The phenomenon of life in all the kingdoms is the work of the Archangels of the elements.

When a human being first incarnates into the lower worlds it does so with one Archangel from each Order of the elements. Thus, within the bodies of every human being there work a Michael, a Gabriel, a Raphael, a Uriel and a Shamael. Shamael, who is the angel of earth, is the elemental projection of Lucifer, the Archangel of light and keeper of duality. Shamael is not himself and Archangel.

Does an Archangel posses Self-awareness? Certainly, but not the Self-awareness common to human beings. The Archangel possesses Total Wisdom, and knows the Laws and Causes and their expressions. It does not, however, display the phenomenon of Self-awareness in various stages as humanity does. The Archangel has no subconscious, nor self-conscious, nor super-conscious Self-awareness. It has Absolute Self-awareness. Perhaps Total Wisdom knows the nature of Total Wisdom? Perhaps light knows the nature of light?

Before their expression, Human Beings and Archangels, as Holy Monads, differ little from each other. Later, however, when they return to be within Absolute Beingness, the difference is great. The Archangels of the elements -- of fire, of liquid, of earth, of ether -- do not obtain conscious Self-awareness in any of their expressions. This is because they had their Being and were exposed to whatever experiences they had, without being able to make comparisons. An Archangel of fire uses this element with total wisdom, but does not know the emotions and thoughts which are aroused by the presence of this element.

So, we see that the Archangels of the elements are all-wise without possessing human Self-awareness. One is like another; one lives within all and all live within one.

The Archangel indeed possesses everything, except the capacity to measure and compare."

......."THE ORDER OF MICHAEL – Ma-Ha-El, - "The Great God". In Sanskrit Maha means great and El stands for God (as it does in Ancient Egyptian and Hebrew). Appropriately we find the suffix El in all the Archangelic names. Michael's light is red, in all its shades, and he is the Archangel of light and fire. Michael gives us the bodily warmth, and the warm red blood. "






(source: http://www.researchersoftruth.org/teach ... ls-history)

thatkidakayoungguy
Senior Member
Posts: 645
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:44 pm
Christian: Yes

Re: Michael

Postby thatkidakayoungguy » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:06 pm

Very intriguing BigHamster...never heard of that one.

PaulSacramento
Board Moderator
Posts: 7391
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Michael

Postby PaulSacramento » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:40 am

I wouldn't pay much attention to Christian mystic, especially since such things are explicitly prohibited in the Bible by God.
If you want to know about Angels and about Michael, read the bible.
Don't add to what the bible says or make things up, just read it.
If God wanted us to know more about His spiritual plane and the beings that live there, He would tell us.

User avatar
BigHamster
Recognized Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:10 pm
Christian: Yes

Re: Michael

Postby BigHamster » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:01 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:I wouldn't pay much attention to Christian mystic, especially since such things are explicitly prohibited in the Bible by God.
If you want to know about Angels and about Michael, read the bible.
Don't add to what the bible says or make things up, just read it.
If God wanted us to know more about His spiritual plane and the beings that live there, He would tell us.


Well said PS. I agree with what you say. It's just that sometimes I feel the urge to give people a little bit more insight into the workings of the spirit, etc. I guess I need to find another forum where people are more comfortable in discussing/experiencing these things (or as you sort of put it, when God wants us to know, he will send us to the right place).

User avatar
BigHamster
Recognized Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:10 pm
Christian: Yes

Re: Michael

Postby BigHamster » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:52 pm

How about an esoteric studies forum topic, ie,

CHRISTIAN FORUMS
|
|
Christian Chit-chat
|
Bible Studies
|
Creation Talk
.
.
.
.
Prayer Requests
|
Christian Testimonies
|
Forbidden, Secret Esoteric Studies - Only Enter if GOD sends you Here


Return to “The Bible and Scripture”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest