hughfarey wrote:If I really knew the difference between rationality and wisdom, I might agree. I'm reluctant to dabble much further into a forum outside my sphere, in case I find myself out on a limb of mere personal opinion rather than attempting to express some accumulated wisdom (oops. That word again...) of many people over many centuries.Kurieuo wrote:That would depend on how you define rationality. I think the Christian message aka Christ, may be beyond rationality in the positivism forms many expect such to be found, but it is not beyond wisdom.Hugh wrote:Lots of remarkable things are recorded in the Bible, many of which have profound philosophical significance, and I agree that the resurrection is the most important of them. What I don't agree is that any of them are necessarily beyond rationality.
Indeed, what is "wisdom" is a big question. I'd only attempt to elucidate rather than spell out exactly what it is.
Wisdom, as I see it, requires making a decision not only based upon evidence that presents itself (i.e., Positivist methods), but also based upon perception, gut intuition, reaction, emotions, our heart. Those who will only commit to a belief or action once positive evidences or rational reason fully presents itself, may perhaps procrastinate on making any decision. In times where action is needed, they might stall and/or end up too late by the time full revelation is had. I don't know about you, but I'm very familiar with such people.
Applying it back to Christ's resurrection. Paul is talking about the Gospel being foolishness to others, that God would incarnate Himself into human form, eat, poop and sleep, before around 30 years later allowing Himself to be crucified on the cross so that we might be redeemed from our sin. Such is foolishness to Muslims, and foolishness to a great many intellectual people today. Yet, the resurrection itself justifies Christ and gives hope that we ourselves will also be raised up and glorified in Christ. Without it, perhaps at best a pseudo (spiritual) resurrection, then Christianity has its guts ripped out of it and might be a nice story to live by, some might be nice to participate spiritually in Church tradition and the like, but it is no better than a fairy tale.
So then, what is the evidence? Certainly, even with the shroud, we have no positive evidence for believing Jesus has raised from the dead. That is, we didn't see, hear or touch Jesus directly ourselves. Any evidence like the shroud is even indirect and circumstantial at best. We also never witnessed any of his healing acts, saw His crucifixion or walking around thereafter, ascension or the like.
Yet, then, something within me rings of truth. There is a coherency to the story of God's redemption for humanity from the beginning in Genesis, to the promised Messiah of Israel in whom God establish an everlasting covenant between Himself and ALL people. And then, the more mysterious signs and symbols provided in Revelation of ends times and God's new kingdom.
If one is seeking for meaning and purpose in the world, wants to know they "why" questions, then I dare say Christianity has a cornerstone on explaining all such questions with a most coherent set of beliefs that explain deeply felt existential questions. It has such high explanatory power whether it comes to why we have moral inclinations, why the universe exists, why we exist, purpose and meaning. As Christians, I believe even that God also establishes in some spiritual way within us a perception of sorts. Our eyes are opened up to see God in the world, although we can't reach out and touch Him or see Him. Unlike others, your eyes are opened to the cosmological argument ringing true and there being so much more than the world we're in, because of the universe which couldn't have really gotten there in all it's glory and the like by itself.
In any case, throw all that together, and then look upon the story of Christ, and I think there is a powerful reason for belief in such. While we may not directly touched upon such via rationality or science, this wisdom isn't necessarily be attained through such any more than one's intuitions such as right and wrong, love, the strong feeling something is going to happen despite not being able to explain rationally why, etc.
Getting back to wisdom, I see it often requires us acting out in the certain manner. Making the best choices based upon what we know and often what we feel to be the case. I'm reminded of Solomon who did not know which woman the baby belonged to, and ordered it cut in half and each portion then given to each woman. Even if the woman who cried out, "no, give the whole baby to the other woman," wasn't the real mother -- she was certainly going to look after the baby as her own. And so then Solomon ordered the baby given to the woman who cried out to spare the child. That, while a simple story, indeed displayed wisdom without any DNA test required.
Making decisions with much uncertainty is a big part of being human, and equally it is amazing how far people get by in life who have appear to have little rationality and intellect, who make decisions by the seat of their pants. We praise such in sports where one team is lead to victory by a snap decisions in the moment, in wars where bravery and survival is demonstrated against all reasonable odd.
Now I suppose, all I'm saying here, is that belief in Jesus' resurrection also doesn't just come about by rationality, reason, science i.e., positivist methods hailed as being the sole masters of any knowledge and as such "wisdom". Indeed, I don't believe Positivism is solely itself sustainable as a rationally valid position. There is more to be had for belief in Christ and the resurrection, our redemption and the like, which are based upon a "wisdom" not had by purely positivist means.