Genesis 16:12 in Hebrew

[Christian2]

From Hebrew Bible:

Genesis 16:12: And he shall be a wild *** of a man: his hand shall be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the face of all his brethren.'

Genesis 16:12 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

12 “He will be a wild donkey of a man,
His hand will be against everyone,
And everyone’s hand will be against him;
And he will [a]live to the east of all his brothers.”

Why do I see "east" in the NASB and "in the face of all his brethren" in the Hebrew Bible?

Do they mean the same thing?

Does "east" mean east like in North, South, West and EAST?

Please explain.

Thanks.

[B. W.]

From Hebrew Bible:

Genesis 16:12: And he shall be a wild *** of a man: his hand shall be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the face of all his brethren.'

Genesis 16:12 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

12 “He will be a wild donkey of a man,
His hand will be against everyone,
And everyone’s hand will be against him;
And he will [a]live to the east of all his brothers.”

Why do I see "east" in the NASB and "in the face of all his brethren" in the Hebrew Bible?

Do they mean the same thing?

Does "east" mean east like in North, South, West and EAST?

Please explain.

Thanks.

What helps is to understand the meaning of names and the symbolism... I will place these within the NASB text

Gen 16:11 NASB, "The angel of the LORD said to her further, "Behold, you are with child, And you will bear a son; And you shall call his name Ishmael (whom God Hears), Because the LORD has given heed to your affliction."

Gen 16:12 "He will be a wild donkey of a man, His hand will be against everyone, And everyone's hand will be against him; And he will live to the east (the word used here is not East but Panyim) of all his brothers." NASB

Look at Verse 12 again fro th eJPS Version: And he shall be a wild ass of a man: his hand shall be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the face of all his brethren.' Gen 16:12 JPS


"He will be a wild donkey of a man, His hand will be against everyone, And everyone's hand will be against him; And he will live in the face-presence (Panyim) of all his brothers." NASB

This is telling us, Ishmael (whom God Hears) and his descendants will be a real pain in the donkey's rear to all people, just as Hagar was to Abraham's wife and Abraham too who went in flight and acted and driven by fear

Hagar means one who fears and emigrates, in flight about, wanders...

So the sins of Hagar were to follow Ishmael (whom God Hears).... as a sort of play on words to denote consequences of sin of strife, bitterness. Ishmael will be one whom God hears - all the strife and bitterness toward everyone around him is what God will hear.

East is not the best word to translate panyim - presences/faces into too.

Hope this helps
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[Christian2]

From Hebrew Bible:

Genesis 16:12: And he shall be a wild *** of a man: his hand shall be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the face of all his brethren.'

Genesis 16:12 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

12 “He will be a wild donkey of a man,
His hand will be against everyone,
And everyone’s hand will be against him;
And he will [a]live to the east of all his brothers.”

Why do I see "east" in the NASB and "in the face of all his brethren" in the Hebrew Bible?

Do they mean the same thing?

Does "east" mean east like in North, South, West and EAST?

Please explain.

Thanks.

What helps is to understand the meaning of names and the symbolism... I will place these within the NASB text

Gen 16:11 NASB, "The angel of the LORD said to her further, "Behold, you are with child, And you will bear a son; And you shall call his name Ishmael (whom God Hears), Because the LORD has given heed to your affliction."

Gen 16:12 "He will be a wild donkey of a man, His hand will be against everyone, And everyone's hand will be against him; And he will live to the east (the word used here is not East but Panyim) of all his brothers." NASB

Look at Verse 12 again fro th eJPS Version: And he shall be a wild *** of a man: his hand shall be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the face of all his brethren.' Gen 16:12 JPS


"He will be a wild donkey of a man, His hand will be against everyone, And everyone's hand will be against him; And he will live in the face-presence (Panyim) of all his brothers." NASB

This is telling us, Ishmael (whom God Hears) and his descendants will be a real pain in the donkey's rear to all people, just as Hagar was to Abraham's wife and Abraham too who went in flight and acted and driven by fear

Hagar means one who fears and emigrates, in flight about, wanders...

So the sins of Hagar were to follow Ishmael (whom God Hears).... as a sort of play on words to denote consequences of sin of strife, bitterness. Ishmael will be one whom God hears - all the strife and bitterness toward everyone around him is what God will hear.

East is not the best word to translate panyim - presences/faces into too.

Hope this helps
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Thank you for your reply. Yes it helps.

I found all translations of Genesis 16:12 and only three said "east." NASB was one of them and it has a footnote.

12 “He will be a wild donkey of a man,
His hand will be against everyone,
And everyone’s hand will be against him;
And he will [a]live to the east of all his brothers.”
Footnotes:

Genesis 16:12 Lit dwell
Genesis 16:12 Lit before the face of; or in defiance of

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/6440.htm

◄ 6440. panim or paneh ►
Strong's Concordance
panim or paneh: face, faces
Original Word: פָּנִים
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: panim or paneh
Phonetic Spelling: (paw-neem')
Short Definition: before

What I don't understand is why some translations say "east" in the first place.

Thanks.

[B. W.]

...Thank you for your reply. Yes it helps.

I found all translations of Genesis 16:12 and only three said "east." NASB was one of them and it has a footnote.

12 “He will be a wild donkey of a man,
His hand will be against everyone,
And everyone’s hand will be against him;
And he will [a]live to the east of all his brothers.”
Footnotes:

Genesis 16:12 Lit dwell
Genesis 16:12 Lit before the face of; or in defiance of

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/6440.htm

◄ 6440. panim or paneh ►
Strong's Concordance
panim or paneh: face, faces
Original Word: פָּנִים
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: panim or paneh
Phonetic Spelling: (paw-neem')
Short Definition: before

What I don't understand is why some translations say "east" in the first place.

Thanks.

I do not understand why some translations translated the word East instead of presence or face either.

The best I could piece together as to why is due to allegory: the eastern rising sun shining on one's face - denotes a new day, or blessing.

Utley's - You Can Understand the Bible: Study Guide Commentary says of this verse:

This phrase, "to the east," seems to have two possible etymologies: (1) to the east of (lit. "before the face of," BDB 815) and (2) "in defiance of." Both etymologies seem to be related in this context and describe exactly the Bedouin tribes of the Middle East.

Cambridge Bible for schools and Colleges commentary reads:

While “in the presence,” or “in the face of” all his brethren, might legitimately be rendered “to the east of” the Israelites, the east was scarcely the quarter in which the Ishmaelites were chiefly found. A better explanation gives to the words the meaning of a foe, dwelling close at hand and “over against” his brethren, ever ready to attack and raid their territory.

The context is clear though Ishmael's descendants will be wild, and in everyone's face, in other words, real bullies who demand their way or else and just do what they want to. They will be a mixed people, hard to get along with.

Though not politically correct, there are national characteristics, traits, and this passage is referring to those of Ishmael's line.
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[EssentialSacrifice]

The context is clear though Ishmael's descendants will be wild, and in everyone's face, in other words, real bullies who demand their way or else and just do what they want to. They will be a mixed people, hard to get along with.

Though not politically correct, there are national characteristics, traits, and this passage is referring to those of Ishmael's line.

see ISIS, et al ? Doesn't fall far from the tree ! if you can see the forest for them.

This ain't exactly their first dance ... http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/ ... meline.htm

[ganaa]

This is a reason why world like this, like today...

However they both are sons of Abraham. But oldest one was born from slave, second one was born from the promises of GOD to Abraham. Genesis 15:4-6. sometimes I think; If Sarah was little more confident for word of GOD..., but everything was already planned before existing the foundation of earth (so,. before we think and doing any analysis). See Daniel 10, 12. History is not only history. History is His Story.

[Christian2]

Thanks guys.