Song of Solomon

Discussions about the Bible, and any issues raised by Scripture.
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neo-x
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Re: Song of Solomon

Post by neo-x »

whatever you embeded, I can't see it, do kindly let me know what is that?
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.

I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


//johnadavid.wordpress.com
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Nessa
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Re: Song of Solomon

Post by Nessa »

just because something is never mentioned is not concrete proof that it means its not valid.
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Re: Song of Solomon

Post by Nessa »

Its just a song called Doves Eyes. You might not like it anyway
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neo-x
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Re: Song of Solomon

Post by neo-x »

Nessa wrote:just because something is never mentioned is not concrete proof that it means its not valid.
You like apologetics, this is a good argument to learn from. Reason with yourself, I am asking you what is your scripture basis to say its about church and Christ, in the first place. You need to show why this is about Christ and church from within the scripture, not your opinion of it. When this was first written how would it perceived to be?
The quote from you above won't cut it anywhere.

I charge you that you are more intelligent than Christ and the apostles since you can see what they apparently did not. ;)

And I reiterate you can say its about Christ and the church, but you also need to accept that you have no scripture to support it as such. Its baseless when it comes to scripture.

And you need to address issues of non-citation when any child in the place of apostles would see the value of such an accepted text in the Hebrew canon to be a smoking gun when quoting from the O.T to validate Christ as the messiah.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.

I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


//johnadavid.wordpress.com
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Nessa
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Re: Song of Solomon

Post by Nessa »

Yes, I like apologetics but I never claimed to be any good at it.
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neo-x
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Re: Song of Solomon

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Nessa wrote:Yes, I like apologetics but I never claimed to be any good at it.
That is why I am saying you can learn. First thing is to have sound reasons and arguments.

A Rabbi can apply the same logic you are applying and say the woman in the book is Israel, the 12 tribes, not the church.

FYI throughout history church fathers have held many different views on it, and in the 12th century there were references to Mary the mother of Jesus as the lady who is the "spouse" of God in the song of Solomon. Can you see the problem with your logic? It works with everyone's views. You just change the subject and it would work to their advantage.

And to make it worst since its your sole logic to justify your argument, you can't say the other argument is wrong, e.g Israel as the woman in the book, since they can just say the same as you did, just because it is not written or mentioned doesn't mean its invalid. Now what can you say to that?

You need to ask the questions as to the purpose of the book, the author message or intention, the impression it would make on its first audience and so on and so forth. It is worth it as it establishes a sound base to put your argument on. Right now no one will take your statement seriously because you have given no warranted reasons, please note I am not saying possible reasons, I mean reasons which have a grounding and have a merit to be considered.

We can not generalize, skipping over important points which go against our stance and just say that its true because we have some verses x number of books after which talks about something else, but which would fit here nicely.
That is not proper biblical reading. Its unreasonable and often wrong. Because instead of addressing the text at its prime value we are reading into the text what we believe. This is the "wrong way around" to read the Bible.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.

I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


//johnadavid.wordpress.com
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Nessa
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Re: Song of Solomon

Post by Nessa »

you dont believe the bible is inerrant do you? I find it hard to understand alot of the arguments people bring fourth including yours. Yes my arguments may lack...but this forum us hardly at a beginners level and its hard... really hard.
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Re: Song of Solomon

Post by neo-x »

You dont believe the bible is inerrant do you?
Yes, I think parts of the genesis story are wrong. Though I fail to see why it is relevant here?
Yes my arguments may lack...but this forum us hardly at a beginners level and its hard... really hard.
I can understand that, I was quite naive when I came here back in 2011. Anyway there is always a good time to learn things. Just go slowly, have good reasons.
Last edited by neo-x on Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.

I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


//johnadavid.wordpress.com
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Nessa
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Re: Song of Solomon

Post by Nessa »

I bring up the inerrancy because to me believing the bible is all true is the foundation for all other truths
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neo-x
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Re: Song of Solomon

Post by neo-x »

Sure, but what does this has to do with song of Solomon is about Christ and church? Even If I say bible is inerrant, my points still stand. Inerrancy here, doesn't help or falter the argument at all, it has no bearing.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.

I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


//johnadavid.wordpress.com
User avatar
Nessa
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Re: Song of Solomon

Post by Nessa »

Then how do you know that the bible isnt errant in not mentioning song of solomon, Christ and the church connection? That it got lost in translation or another reason.
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Re: Song of Solomon

Post by neo-x »

Because it doesn't connect. You are saying this because you are not familiar with exegesis. You should look up the term and explore, ask questions etc.

Further I told you, I am taking the text as it is. I only exclude parts of Genesis story. I am pretty okay with the rest. The Bible was not written in a single session, nor penned by a single person, these books are treated differently. And should be, a single verse in Isiah can not be interpreted by another single verse in Romans with superficial quality of interpretation.

Besides the fact, if the Bible is inerrant, that doesn't by default means or prove that Solomon wrote about Christ and Church. You need to understand that this is not how it works.

My argument in this thread is not related to or concludes to inerrancy of the scriptures. It is a matter of theological meaning and purpose we are talking about.
Last edited by neo-x on Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.

I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


//johnadavid.wordpress.com
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neo-x
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Re: Song of Solomon

Post by neo-x »

Actually I don't blame you, its not your fault. I think you have always seen people use scripture like this and you probably do the same. Tele-evangelists and pastors use this method too for giving sermons. Its called systematic theology, its helpful when giving sermons but it has a very great margin of error and is not right tool to study the bible in context. Systematic theology discards of context of the material it engages, that is why its considered a poor form of theological method of engaging the scriptures.
Last edited by neo-x on Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.

I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


//johnadavid.wordpress.com
User avatar
Nessa
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Christian: Yes
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Re: Song of Solomon

Post by Nessa »

Thats why I wanted a seperate part for people like me who obviously don't know much. So we don't come off feeling like a dumbass when asking questions or putting forth weak arguments.
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neo-x
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Re: Song of Solomon

Post by neo-x »

Nessa wrote:Thats why I wanted a seperate part for people like me who obviously don't know much. So we don't come off feeling like a dumbass when asking questions or putting forth weak arguments.
I think it will be very hard to categorize, the forum has always been spontaneous and probably works the best like this since debates like these are great for learning. But that is my opinion. I don't think anyone would tell you that you are dumbass for asking questions. I haven't seen this much here.

Its okay to put forth weak arguments, since that is when you could be advised or corrected. We all learn this way. Its a painful process sometimes because we may have to wash out what we have been taught.

The thing, is, if you are willing to learn, then you should be willing to read/research. And sometimes things have been debated quite extensively in the past, its good to go back there and read through it all, ask questions. Research your ideas with other members. You'd get great results, I think.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.

I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


//johnadavid.wordpress.com
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