Rob Bell AFTER Hell

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Re: Rob Bell AFTER Hell

Postby RickD » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:50 am

jenna wrote:
HOWEVER, true faith requires obedience to God's laws.




So, if we don't fulfill your requirement of obedience to God's laws, that means we don't have "true faith"? And can I assume that if we don't have "true faith", then we can't have eternal life?
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


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Re: Rob Bell AFTER Hell

Postby B. W. » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:52 am

jenna wrote:...i do not put Armstrong's teachings above God's. I believe his teachings are from god. there is a huge difference here. God used prophets to speak His words to people, John, Mark, Luke, Amos, Timothy, etc, etc. You asked me before, if I think that you are not Christian because you believe differently than I do. I am now asking you that same question. Are you afraid I am going to go to hell because I do not see the teachings of the bible the same way you do?


Jenna, so if I am hearing you correctly, you are saying that Armstrong's writings are equal to the Gospel accounts and even superseding the writings of Paul, Peter, Jude, James, writer of the Book of Hebrews?

You are placing Herbert and his writings and doctrines above these and have made them into an idol. Kindly suggest you stick with New Testament writers. Armstrong contradicts these as well made numerable provable false prophecies.


From 1938 to 1945 H W Armstrong gave 21 major prophecy failures and by the time he passed away, he has made about 209 false prophecies due to the date setting which he implied in many of these.

Armstrong predicted in 1953 that in 1972 that the Great Tribulation would begin. When that failed to appear, the leadership of the WCG made excuses for this in many forms, mostly blaming the people of the WCG for acting recklessly and it was they setting date of the year, or that the church was not ready (perfect enough) so it was delayed by God. The excuses were many and even that Herbert never set dates, yet the transcripts and recordings of his media program both radio and written have him setting dates.

Next...

Jenna, I am not accusing you not being a Christian. I am sure the Holy Spirit Himself will convict you if you are not and with that I am content.

My concern is for you. A compassion to show you are following a false system that has caused so much damage to its own members due to the dogmatic control freak nature that its leadership exerts over its members. Do you fear you leaders more than God? Have you crossed them, yet? Question them yet? If so did they put you before a inquisition board to shame you back into your place of obeying them?

Only thing I can do is pray that your eyes be opened and that you find the liberty of God's Grace.

With this, here is a transcript form H W Armstrong quoted below:


"The WORLD TOMORROW"
A NATION-WIDE BROADCAST
HERBERT W. ARMSTRONG

Analyses Today's News, with the
Prophecies of THE WORLD TOMORROW

Quoted from: http://hwarmstrong.com/19-year-cycle.htm

Box 111, Pasadena, California

Publishing:
The PLAIN TRUTH
A Magazine of UNDERSTANDING

May 22nd, 1953

…World War 3 brings with it THE GREAT TRIBULATION. That is now next in order. But Jesus, in foretelling this chain of world events, said the GREAT TRIBULATION would be preceded by the world-wide proclaiming of HIS Gospel. "The GOSPEL must first be published among all nations," said Jesus (Mark 13:10), or, as recorded by Matthew (24:14): "This Gospel OF THE KINGDOM shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto ALL NATIONS; and THEN shall the END (of the world) come…."

Listen now to an ASTOUNDING fact! God has set TIME running in cycles of 19 years. Just once every 19 years the days, divided by the sun; the months, divided by the new moons; and the years, divided by the revolution of the earth around the sun, all come into exact conjunction. Thus God's NATURE runs in 19-year cycles. That is important. Now see what has happened.

It took just ONE COMPLETE CYCLE of 19 years for this work to grow from nothing until it carried the very Gospel of Jesus all over the North American continent in mighty POWER! That 19-year cycle ended, and the second 19-year cycle began, during the first quarter of this present year, 1953!

The very start of the second 19-year cycle marked the beginning of proclaiming this Gospel to ALL EUROPE and THE BRITISH ISLES! It must still go to Asia, Africa, South America, and Australia. WHEN it has spanned the world, THEN the END OF THE WORLD shall come! The disciples asked Jesus WHEN this world would end, and His second coming occur. He said THIS Gospel shall go around the world, and THEN shall the end come!…

...The invasion of the United States with HYDROGEN-bombs that shall destroy our cities, therefore, must BEGIN at least 10 1/2 years PRIOR to the ending of the Times of the Gentiles! IF THE TIMES OF THE GENTILES END IN 1982, in October, as Mr. Hoeh has it figured, THE INVASION OF AMERICA AND THE GREAT TRIBULATION MUST BEGIN NOT LATER THAT MARCH-APRIL, 1972!

....It could begin sooner. This date is hypothetical, not definite. But apparently it cannot begin LATER than that date. One chronology sets this disaster TEN YEARS from now! But March- April, 1972 is the LATEST POSSIBLE DATE....

NOW SEE WHAT THAT MEANS! That date is exactly 19 years from March-April this year, 1953! It is exactly 19 years -- ONE COMPLETE CYCLE -- from the time the FIRST cycle of this great work of God ended!

WHAT A TREMENDOUS SIGNIFICANCE THAT HAS! Think of it! God allowed us one exact complete cycle of 19 years for proclaiming CHRIST'S GOSPEL to all North America -- all the United States, Canada, and Mexico! At the START of the second 19-year cycle, GOD OPENED THE DOOR to ALL EUROPE! And the MILITARY INVASION that shall END all true Gospel preaching is apparently to strike at the precise END of this second 19-year period -- the spring of 1972 -- EXACTLY 19 YEARS FROM NOW!…

TIME IS SHORT! We need to WAKE UP! God has opened the door -- given us the use of the most powerful instrumentalities ever invented for COMMUNICATING His Message to the world! We are small, few in number, having but little strength of our own. Yet GOD is doing a mighty, and a great, and a POWERFUL work thru us!....

....And yet, many of us seem to LET DOWN, and grow slack in supporting this great and glorious work. ONCE AGAIN THE RECEIPT OF MONEY IS FALLING OFF! Once again, the situation seems ALARMING! I need your immediate and MOST GENEROUS RESPONSE! Do you know WHY it is such a difficult financial struggle to conduct God's work? It is because THOUSANDS of you Co-Workers who may be poor financially, and have but a little, get to thinking that your little -- perhaps only a dollar or two -- would not be big enough to help. It is BECAUSE so many of you who can't send more are failing to send in your widow's mites that this glorious work of God often faces a crisis. Of course that makes it all the more necessary for those of you who CAN to send in large offerings -- $50, or $100, or $1,000 or more. It is the FAITHFUL TITHE-payers among you, and those who send in generous amounts when you are able, that keeps tiding this work over.

THE TABERNACLE: God commanded us to FEED HIS SHEEP, as well as to proclaim His Gospel to the world. It is NECESSARY that we have a place to assemble and OBEY GOD by keeping His appointed festivals. And there are SO MANY who do attend these festivals we are having to build a tabernacle that will seat 1300 people.… GOD has shown us how to do this -- to build solidly and well, yet CHEAPLY! Yet this morning the total amount of money received for building it was $2, and this afternoon $1 -- $3 for the whole day. I think there was about $7 yesterday! CO-WORKERS, WE CAN'T FINISH THE TABERNACLE UNLESS YOU GET BEHIND THIS, AND KEEP BEHIND IT!

Not one thing has been done to it since the Spring Festival there the last of March and early April. CO-WORKERS, FROM HERE ON I WILL NOT APPLY ANY REGULAR MONEY FOR THE GOSPEL WORK TOWARD FINISHING THAT TABERNACLE!

I have to tell you that I am terribly disappointed and discouraged with the way most of you Co-Workers have almost totally dropped the special offerings for the Tabernacle. IT BEGINS TO LOOK LIKE WE CAN'T HOLD THE FESTIVAL OF TABERNACLES THERE, AFTER ALL! Co-Workers DO YOU WANT TO JUST STOP WHERE WE ARE, AND MAKE OURSELVES THE LAUGHING-STOCK OF ALL TEXAS? I feel ashamed, and terribly discouraged. This Tabernacle is necessary for GOD'S PROGRAM -- in order that we may OBEY GOD and attend His festivals. I wrote you before how they built a Tabernacle in Moses' day, and the children of Israel sent in so much Moses had to send out a proclamation to restrain them from sending more. Are we going to let the people of that day put us to shame? I know that some of you CAN send in special offerings of $1,000 or perhaps $3,000 or more. I know that MANY of you can, if your hearts are willing, send in special offerings of $30, or $100 for the Tabernacle. NOW LET'S STIR OURSELVES AND GET BEHIND IT!…

The entire work is in dire need. SEND IN YOUR WIDOWS' MITES, all you who are unable to send more. DON'T think it won't help -- when there are enough of them, these small amounts COUNT UP. The only thing wrong with those three single dollars that came in today for the Tabernacle fund is that THERE WERE NOT ENOUGH OF THEM. GOD'S WORK IS WAITING ON YOU! It is the ONE world event prophesied for NOW! Every dollar in the Gospel work takes the MESSAGE OF JESUS TO MORE THAN 2,000 people! Yes, thru the door GOD HAS OPENED TO US! This is GOD'S work. Let each of you do his own part to his utmost. God does not expect anyone to do what he is unable to do -- but He DOES expect each of us to do what we CAN. God bless you all, I know you'll leap to the rescue, and send in immediately the largest sum you can.

"The WORLD TOMORROW"
A NATION-WIDE BROADCAST

HERBERT W. ARMSTRONG
Analyses Today's News, with the
Prophesies of The WORLD TOMORROW


Listen to the bible Deut 18:22 and I John 4:1 on this subject not me.

The hallmark of those mentioned in Deut 18:22 is that, like Balaam decree for profiteering... evidenced by appeals for funds...
-
-
-
Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

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Re: Rob Bell AFTER Hell

Postby RickD » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:01 pm

Interesting, B. W. Now I can add, "false prophet" to my list of Armstrong's cultlike beliefs.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Rob Bell AFTER Hell

Postby jenna » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:45 pm

RickD wrote:
jenna wrote:
HOWEVER, true faith requires obedience to God's laws.




So, if we don't fulfill your requirement of obedience to God's laws, that means we don't have "true faith"? And can I assume that if we don't have "true faith", then we can't have eternal life?

How nice of you to take one single sentence out of my entire response, then take it out of context. Firstly, it is not MY REQUIREMENT. i gave you scripture and verse, look it up yourself.
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them

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Re: Rob Bell AFTER Hell

Postby jenna » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:57 pm

B. W. wrote:
jenna wrote:...i do not put Armstrong's teachings above God's. I believe his teachings are from god. there is a huge difference here. God used prophets to speak His words to people, John, Mark, Luke, Amos, Timothy, etc, etc. You asked me before, if I think that you are not Christian because you believe differently than I do. I am now asking you that same question. Are you afraid I am going to go to hell because I do not see the teachings of the bible the same way you do?


Jenna, so if I am hearing you correctly, you are saying that Armstrong's writings are equal to the Gospel accounts and even superseding the writings of Paul, Peter, Jude, James, writer of the Book of Hebrews?

No, please read where i said, etc, etc. Just because I did not specifically name them you assume I left them out?
B. W. wrote:You are placing Herbert and his writings and doctrines above these and have made them into an idol. Kindly suggest you stick with New Testament writers. Armstrong contradicts these as well made numerable provable false prophecies.

again, no. And some of the names mentioned WERE NEW TESTAMENT. Kindly suggest you read before you post?

B. W. wrote:From 1938 to 1945 H W Armstrong gave 21 major prophecy failures and by the time he passed away, he has made about 209 false prophecies due to the date setting which he implied in many of these.

Armstrong predicted in 1953 that in 1972 that the Great Tribulation would begin. When that failed to appear, the leadership of the WCG made excuses for this in many forms, mostly blaming the people of the WCG for acting recklessly and it was they setting date of the year, or that the church was not ready (perfect enough) so it was delayed by God. The excuses were many and even that Herbert never set dates, yet the transcripts and recordings of his media program both radio and written have him setting dates.

First off, this is a transcript which another person wrote. anyone can write a false statement and pass it off as "fact", because there will always be some who believe it.

B. W. wrote:Next...

Jenna, I am not accusing you not being a Christian. I am sure the Holy Spirit Himself will convict you if you are not and with that I am content.

My concern is for you. A compassion to show you are following a false system that has caused so much damage to its own members due to the dogmatic control freak nature that its leadership exerts over its members. Do you fear you leaders more than God? Have you crossed them, yet? Question them yet? If so did they put you before a inquisition board to shame you back into your place of obeying them?

Only thing I can do is pray that your eyes be opened and that you find the liberty of God's Grace.

With this, here is a transcript form H W Armstrong quoted below:


"The WORLD TOMORROW"
A NATION-WIDE BROADCAST
HERBERT W. ARMSTRONG

Analyses Today's News, with the
Prophecies of THE WORLD TOMORROW

Quoted from: http://hwarmstrong.com/19-year-cycle.htm

Box 111, Pasadena, California

Publishing:
The PLAIN TRUTH
A Magazine of UNDERSTANDING

May 22nd, 1953

…World War 3 brings with it THE GREAT TRIBULATION. That is now next in order. But Jesus, in foretelling this chain of world events, said the GREAT TRIBULATION would be preceded by the world-wide proclaiming of HIS Gospel. "The GOSPEL must first be published among all nations," said Jesus (Mark 13:10), or, as recorded by Matthew (24:14): "This Gospel OF THE KINGDOM shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto ALL NATIONS; and THEN shall the END (of the world) come…."

Listen now to an ASTOUNDING fact! God has set TIME running in cycles of 19 years. Just once every 19 years the days, divided by the sun; the months, divided by the new moons; and the years, divided by the revolution of the earth around the sun, all come into exact conjunction. Thus God's NATURE runs in 19-year cycles. That is important. Now see what has happened.

It took just ONE COMPLETE CYCLE of 19 years for this work to grow from nothing until it carried the very Gospel of Jesus all over the North American continent in mighty POWER! That 19-year cycle ended, and the second 19-year cycle began, during the first quarter of this present year, 1953!

The very start of the second 19-year cycle marked the beginning of proclaiming this Gospel to ALL EUROPE and THE BRITISH ISLES! It must still go to Asia, Africa, South America, and Australia. WHEN it has spanned the world, THEN the END OF THE WORLD shall come! The disciples asked Jesus WHEN this world would end, and His second coming occur. He said THIS Gospel shall go around the world, and THEN shall the end come!…

...The invasion of the United States with HYDROGEN-bombs that shall destroy our cities, therefore, must BEGIN at least 10 1/2 years PRIOR to the ending of the Times of the Gentiles! IF THE TIMES OF THE GENTILES END IN 1982, in October, as Mr. Hoeh has it figured, THE INVASION OF AMERICA AND THE GREAT TRIBULATION MUST BEGIN NOT LATER THAT MARCH-APRIL, 1972!

....It could begin sooner. This date is hypothetical, not definite. But apparently it cannot begin LATER than that date. One chronology sets this disaster TEN YEARS from now! But March- April, 1972 is the LATEST POSSIBLE DATE....

NOW SEE WHAT THAT MEANS! That date is exactly 19 years from March-April this year, 1953! It is exactly 19 years -- ONE COMPLETE CYCLE -- from the time the FIRST cycle of this great work of God ended!

WHAT A TREMENDOUS SIGNIFICANCE THAT HAS! Think of it! God allowed us one exact complete cycle of 19 years for proclaiming CHRIST'S GOSPEL to all North America -- all the United States, Canada, and Mexico! At the START of the second 19-year cycle, GOD OPENED THE DOOR to ALL EUROPE! And the MILITARY INVASION that shall END all true Gospel preaching is apparently to strike at the precise END of this second 19-year period -- the spring of 1972 -- EXACTLY 19 YEARS FROM NOW!…

TIME IS SHORT! We need to WAKE UP! God has opened the door -- given us the use of the most powerful instrumentalities ever invented for COMMUNICATING His Message to the world! We are small, few in number, having but little strength of our own. Yet GOD is doing a mighty, and a great, and a POWERFUL work thru us!....

....And yet, many of us seem to LET DOWN, and grow slack in supporting this great and glorious work. ONCE AGAIN THE RECEIPT OF MONEY IS FALLING OFF! Once again, the situation seems ALARMING! I need your immediate and MOST GENEROUS RESPONSE! Do you know WHY it is such a difficult financial struggle to conduct God's work? It is because THOUSANDS of you Co-Workers who may be poor financially, and have but a little, get to thinking that your little -- perhaps only a dollar or two -- would not be big enough to help. It is BECAUSE so many of you who can't send more are failing to send in your widow's mites that this glorious work of God often faces a crisis. Of course that makes it all the more necessary for those of you who CAN to send in large offerings -- $50, or $100, or $1,000 or more. It is the FAITHFUL TITHE-payers among you, and those who send in generous amounts when you are able, that keeps tiding this work over.

THE TABERNACLE: God commanded us to FEED HIS SHEEP, as well as to proclaim His Gospel to the world. It is NECESSARY that we have a place to assemble and OBEY GOD by keeping His appointed festivals. And there are SO MANY who do attend these festivals we are having to build a tabernacle that will seat 1300 people.… GOD has shown us how to do this -- to build solidly and well, yet CHEAPLY! Yet this morning the total amount of money received for building it was $2, and this afternoon $1 -- $3 for the whole day. I think there was about $7 yesterday! CO-WORKERS, WE CAN'T FINISH THE TABERNACLE UNLESS YOU GET BEHIND THIS, AND KEEP BEHIND IT!

Not one thing has been done to it since the Spring Festival there the last of March and early April. CO-WORKERS, FROM HERE ON I WILL NOT APPLY ANY REGULAR MONEY FOR THE GOSPEL WORK TOWARD FINISHING THAT TABERNACLE!

I have to tell you that I am terribly disappointed and discouraged with the way most of you Co-Workers have almost totally dropped the special offerings for the Tabernacle. IT BEGINS TO LOOK LIKE WE CAN'T HOLD THE FESTIVAL OF TABERNACLES THERE, AFTER ALL! Co-Workers DO YOU WANT TO JUST STOP WHERE WE ARE, AND MAKE OURSELVES THE LAUGHING-STOCK OF ALL TEXAS? I feel ashamed, and terribly discouraged. This Tabernacle is necessary for GOD'S PROGRAM -- in order that we may OBEY GOD and attend His festivals. I wrote you before how they built a Tabernacle in Moses' day, and the children of Israel sent in so much Moses had to send out a proclamation to restrain them from sending more. Are we going to let the people of that day put us to shame? I know that some of you CAN send in special offerings of $1,000 or perhaps $3,000 or more. I know that MANY of you can, if your hearts are willing, send in special offerings of $30, or $100 for the Tabernacle. NOW LET'S STIR OURSELVES AND GET BEHIND IT!…

The entire work is in dire need. SEND IN YOUR WIDOWS' MITES, all you who are unable to send more. DON'T think it won't help -- when there are enough of them, these small amounts COUNT UP. The only thing wrong with those three single dollars that came in today for the Tabernacle fund is that THERE WERE NOT ENOUGH OF THEM. GOD'S WORK IS WAITING ON YOU! It is the ONE world event prophesied for NOW! Every dollar in the Gospel work takes the MESSAGE OF JESUS TO MORE THAN 2,000 people! Yes, thru the door GOD HAS OPENED TO US! This is GOD'S work. Let each of you do his own part to his utmost. God does not expect anyone to do what he is unable to do -- but He DOES expect each of us to do what we CAN. God bless you all, I know you'll leap to the rescue, and send in immediately the largest sum you can.

"The WORLD TOMORROW"
A NATION-WIDE BROADCAST

HERBERT W. ARMSTRONG
Analyses Today's News, with the
Prophesies of The WORLD TOMORROW


Listen to the bible Deut 18:22 and I John 4:1 on this subject not me.

The hallmark of those mentioned in Deut 18:22 is that, like Balaam decree for profiteering... evidenced by appeals for funds...
-
-
-

again, see above response.
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them

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Re: Rob Bell AFTER Hell

Postby RickD » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:33 pm

jenna wrote:
RickD wrote:
jenna wrote:
HOWEVER, true faith requires obedience to God's laws.




So, if we don't fulfill your requirement of obedience to God's laws, that means we don't have "true faith"? And can I assume that if we don't have "true faith", then we can't have eternal life?

How nice of you to take one single sentence out of my entire response, then take it out of context. Firstly, it is not MY REQUIREMENT. i gave you scripture and verse, look it up yourself.

Of course it's your requirement. Look Jenna, we're all giving our interpretations of scripture. I'm trying to show you where your interpretation leads.

Tell me then, what does, "HOWEVER, true faith requires obedience to God's laws." mean?
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Rob Bell AFTER Hell

Postby jenna » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:43 pm

RickD wrote:
jenna wrote:
RickD wrote:
jenna wrote:
HOWEVER, true faith requires obedience to God's laws.




So, if we don't fulfill your requirement of obedience to God's laws, that means we don't have "true faith"? And can I assume that if we don't have "true faith", then we can't have eternal life?

How nice of you to take one single sentence out of my entire response, then take it out of context. Firstly, it is not MY REQUIREMENT. i gave you scripture and verse, look it up yourself.

Of course it's your requirement. Look Jenna, we're all giving our interpretations of scripture. I'm trying to show you where your interpretation leads.

Tell me then, what does, "HOWEVER, true faith requires obedience to God's laws." mean?

how exactly is it my requirement? I did not make up these words, it comes directly from what the bible says! Unless you think my requirements equal God's? :swhat:
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them

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Re: Rob Bell AFTER Hell

Postby RickD » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:58 pm

jenna wrote:
RickD wrote:
jenna wrote:
RickD wrote:
jenna wrote:
HOWEVER, true faith requires obedience to God's laws.




So, if we don't fulfill your requirement of obedience to God's laws, that means we don't have "true faith"? And can I assume that if we don't have "true faith", then we can't have eternal life?

How nice of you to take one single sentence out of my entire response, then take it out of context. Firstly, it is not MY REQUIREMENT. i gave you scripture and verse, look it up yourself.

Of course it's your requirement. Look Jenna, we're all giving our interpretations of scripture. I'm trying to show you where your interpretation leads.

Tell me then, what does, "HOWEVER, true faith requires obedience to God's laws." mean?

how exactly is it my requirement? I did not make up these words, it comes directly from what the bible says! Unless you think my requirements equal God's? :swhat:

We are talking about our interpretations of scripture. Through your interpretation, you believe that "HOWEVER, true faith requires obedience to God's laws."

It's your requirement, because it's your interpretation. I'll put it another way...

Simply, what does this mean, "HOWEVER, true faith requires obedience to God's laws."?
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Rob Bell AFTER Hell

Postby jenna » Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:06 pm

a man may be naturally good, but even the self-righteousness of a man like Job, is like a filthy rag to God. The ONLY righteousness that is truly good is the righteousness of God, imparted to us by God. as the BIBLE says (not me), "for this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments." which means if we love God, we do what He says! disobeying the commandments means we do not love Him! now i am not saying that we live a sinless life, that is impossible. but when we do sin, we ask forgiveness and keep striving forward. Jesus said plainly "IF THOU WILL ENTER INTO LIFE, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS." ( Matthew 19:16-17 ) how much plainer can it be? these are the words of God, not some interpretation. now i am asking you a question. are you trying to imply that Christians are not required to keep the law?
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them

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Re: Rob Bell AFTER Hell

Postby RickD » Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:16 pm

jenna wrote:a man may be naturally good, but even the self-righteousness of a man like Job, is like a filthy rag to God. The ONLY righteousness that is truly good is the righteousness of God, imparted to us by God. as the BIBLE says (not me), "for this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments." which means if we love God, we do what He says! disobeying the commandments means we do not love Him! now i am not saying that we live a sinless life, that is impossible. but when we do sin, we ask forgiveness and keep striving forward. Jesus said plainly "IF THOU WILL ENTER INTO LIFE, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS." ( Matthew 19:16-17 ) how much plainer can it be? these are the words of God, not some interpretation. now i am asking you a question. are you trying to imply that Christians are not required to keep the law?

First, the text you quoted in Matthew 19, is a specific answer that Jesus gave to a specific question, by one specific person. Jesus knew the man's heart. Keep reading past the verses you pulled out of context, and the reason Jesus answered that way, becomes clear.



And if I'm to answer your question, I need you to be more specific. That way we're not talking past each other, if we have different meanings of words.

I'm not avoiding, I just need you to be more specific please.

1) define law, in the context you're asking.

And

2) are Christians required to keep the law, for what? Salvation?

And you still haven't answered what you meant by what I asked you in my last post. I'm trying not to make assumptions, so I'm asking for clarification.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Rob Bell AFTER Hell

Postby jenna » Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:42 pm

RickD wrote:
jenna wrote:a man may be naturally good, but even the self-righteousness of a man like Job, is like a filthy rag to God. The ONLY righteousness that is truly good is the righteousness of God, imparted to us by God. as the BIBLE says (not me), "for this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments." which means if we love God, we do what He says! disobeying the commandments means we do not love Him! now i am not saying that we live a sinless life, that is impossible. but when we do sin, we ask forgiveness and keep striving forward. Jesus said plainly "IF THOU WILL ENTER INTO LIFE, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS." ( Matthew 19:16-17 ) how much plainer can it be? these are the words of God, not some interpretation. now i am asking you a question. are you trying to imply that Christians are not required to keep the law?

RickD wrote:First, the text you quoted in Matthew 19, is a specific answer that Jesus gave to a specific question, by one specific person. Jesus knew the man's heart. Keep reading past the verses you pulled out of context, and the reason Jesus answered that way, becomes clear.

so what you are trying to say here is that Jesus meant His answer for one person, and one person only? So His responses are not meant for us today, and we should ignore what He says, since they were not meant for us? If i am reading this correctly, you are claiming that He was answering the man according to his folly, but He was not serious about what He said to him?



RickD wrote:And if I'm to answer your question, I need you to be more specific. That way we're not talking past each other, if we have different meanings of words.

I'm not avoiding, I just need you to be more specific please.

1) define law, in the context you're asking.

the 10 commandments.
RickD wrote:And

2) are Christians required to keep the law, for what? Salvation?

And you still haven't answered what you meant by what I asked you in my last post. I'm trying not to make assumptions, so I'm asking for clarification.

yes, i mean for salvation. what else would i mean here? and as for your other question, it means just what it says. How can we have true faith in something if we cannot even agree what true faith means? the reason why Christ died was for our sins to be wiped clean. Our past sins. Then we place our faith and trust in Him, to guide us into living the way He would want us to live.
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them

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Re: Rob Bell AFTER Hell

Postby JButler » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:34 am

Nessa wrote:As a person who likes to asks questions, its easy to see the same trait in Rob.

His ministry is a ministry to undermind the truth of the bible based on questions

Of course Jesus asked alot of questions too.

However, Rob questions don't actually move people towards the truth. He ultimately leaves people with one question 'How do we know anything?' And if we don't really know anything for sure then lets go with what sounds more alluring to non christians.


Our adversary is like a sly, skillful attorney who has a hands down losing case. The only he can "win" is introduce doubt, better yet destroy, the credibility of the witness. He can't destroy the witness with a full frontal attack because that would be too obvious. So he pokes around looking for a weak spot. Once the weak spot is found it is exploited to place doubt in a juror's mind about everything the witness says. Once that point is reached, then the juror is open to believing anything regardless how crazy it may sound.

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Re: Rob Bell AFTER Hell

Postby Nessa » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:53 am

JButler wrote:
Nessa wrote:As a person who likes to asks questions, its easy to see the same trait in Rob.

His ministry is a ministry to undermind the truth of the bible based on questions

Of course Jesus asked alot of questions too.

However, Rob questions don't actually move people towards the truth. He ultimately leaves people with one question 'How do we know anything?' And if we don't really know anything for sure then lets go with what sounds more alluring to non christians.


Our adversary is like a sly, skillful attorney who has a hands down losing case. The only he can "win" is introduce doubt, better yet destroy, the credibility of the witness. He can't destroy the witness with a full frontal attack because that would be too obvious. So he pokes around looking for a weak spot. Once the weak spot is found it is exploited to place doubt in a juror's mind about everything the witness says. Once that point is reached, then the juror is open to believing anything regardless how crazy it may sound.


You sure you're not talking about Sam Harris? ;)


If Harris ever becomes a lawyer and I'm ever in need of one..... He's a shoo-in.

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Re: Rob Bell AFTER Hell

Postby JButler » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:43 pm

Nessa wrote:
JButler wrote:
Nessa wrote:As a person who likes to asks questions, its easy to see the same trait in Rob.

His ministry is a ministry to undermind the truth of the bible based on questions

Of course Jesus asked alot of questions too.

However, Rob questions don't actually move people towards the truth. He ultimately leaves people with one question 'How do we know anything?' And if we don't really know anything for sure then lets go with what sounds more alluring to non christians.


Our adversary is like a sly, skillful attorney who has a hands down losing case. The only he can "win" is introduce doubt, better yet destroy, the credibility of the witness. He can't destroy the witness with a full frontal attack because that would be too obvious. So he pokes around looking for a weak spot. Once the weak spot is found it is exploited to place doubt in a juror's mind about everything the witness says. Once that point is reached, then the juror is open to believing anything regardless how crazy it may sound.


You sure you're not talking about Sam Harris? ;)


If Harris ever becomes a lawyer and I'm ever in need of one..... He's a shoo-in.


Ahhh....I forgot! Really! I should not be posting after midnight. As the old Dad/Mom saying goes..... "Nothing good happens after midnight." :lol: I could plead guilty being a near-senior citizen I'm about as old as B.W. :wave:

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Re: Rob Bell AFTER Hell

Postby jenna » Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:07 pm

RickD wrote:Interesting, B. W. Now I can add, "false prophet" to my list of Armstrong's cultlike beliefs.

funny how i missed this. but then again, it is as i figured.
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them


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