Any questions about JWs I will answer it

Discussions surrounding the various other faiths who deviate from mainstream Christian doctrine such as LDS and the Jehovah's Witnesses.
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abelcainsbrother
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Re: Any questions about JWs I will answer it

Postby abelcainsbrother » Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:47 am

Yhwhhallowed wrote:Even over the sort God could not pass judgements on a man that could be miss guided. Look at the story of daniel. God new daniel had a Good heart but he was simply miss guided. Daniel then became humbled in turn becoming a leader. No matter what religion i studied the message was clear in them all despite small changes within belief, the message is the hope of everlasting life, as long that God reads your heart and sees no wickedness even if you been misled God would not condemn a man that never heard or had the chance to see the truth. That's almost like saying God would condemn a baby to death because it never came to know him in the correct way. Christianity in a whole surrounds a sacrifice, a promise, and the salvation for those that show purity. Continue in your ways my friend


Your on the wrong path.I'm not going to sugar coat things you either do it God's way to be saved or you are just a hypocrite.Hypocrites were popular actors in Ancient Roman times,they put on plays and skits in the Roman amphitheaters and so hypocrite means you are acting,so you would be acting like a christian doing it the way you describe.Hebrew Rabbi's who reject Jesus as their Messiah say the same thing you did and yet they are lost.It is only through the shed blood of Jesus Christ that we can be saved,if you reject this and go your own way you're just as lost as a non-believer.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Any questions about JWs I will answer it

Postby Starhunter » Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:25 am

My question is,

They believe that Jesus came to earth in 1914, - do they still believe that now, and if so, - is Jesus here somewhere, and what for? What is He supposed to be doing?

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Re: Any questions about JWs I will answer it

Postby Yhwhhallowed » Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:29 am

Starhunter wrote:My question is,

They believe that Jesus came to earth in 1914, - do they still believe that now, and if so, - is Jesus here somewhere, and what for? What is He supposed to be doing?



No they never believed Jesus came in 1914.

Jehovah's witnesses believe in 1914 being a significant date marked by studying the biblical timeline and prophecies. Its called bible chronology. They believe that 1914 was the day that Jesus was declared the king or established ruler in the heavens. Also declaring that leadership required a complete cleansing of the heavens, as war broke out within the heavens between Jesus and Satan along with the followers of both side, in turn they believe that was the exact year Satan and his hords were cast down to the confinements of the earth, believing that satan during that banishment having great anger knowing that his time was limited. Thus causing chaos during that marked year that had strange relation to the cause of the first world war, that weirdly happened starting that previously marked year 1914 by biblical chronology.
John 14-6 I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

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Re: Any questions about JWs I will answer it

Postby Kurieuo » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:00 am

Yhwhhallowed wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
Yhwhhallowed wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
Yhwhhallowed wrote:If anyone has questions that require sincere answering about Jehovah's Witnesses. I will do my best to fill in the gaps for you, although i am not personally a Jehovah's Witness I was raised in the knowledge my entire life. I am not baptised into it or any other religion but had the pleasure in studying the small differences of many different forms of of Christianity as a whole. From Catholic beliefs to Methodist from Baptists to Pentecostals. Give me your question.

I love JWs. Everything is largely kept superficial with JWs who currently visit me.
They drop off their book, have a quick chat and away they go to return a month later.

But, how would they respond to John 1 with Jesus being the creator of everything that was ever created?


Read this http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/videos/but-what-about-john-1-1

That doesn't resolve the passage.
It ignores John 1:14-15 where logos is clearly identified as Jesus.

And so, John 1:1-3 still appears to be a thorn in the side of JW's who believe Jesus was created:

    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
It seems to me you have to do some rather mental gymnastics with Scripture to avoid this conclusion.

But, it's worse. Because in JW's Bible they re-interpret verse 1 as "the Word was a god."
Why bother to do that if we are simply talking about God's wisdom?

It seems to me that there was a revisionist attempt to smooth over the fact this was referring to Jesus, since they believe Jesus was not Jehovah God, but a god -- an angel.
But, this interpretation is undone in verse 3 where everything that has come into existence was created by "a god".
Clearly, the logos in verse 1 is not "a god", but the God since only God is uncreated.


Here this should clear some things up for you http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20090401/is-jesus-god/#?insight[search_id]=ae44e602-5b69-4b91-9570-29e80811b366&insight[search_result_index]=0

That doesn't really help to clarify much the JW's position.

Further, I'm not using John 1 to argue for the Trinity, but for the Word being Jehovah rather than "a god".

Your previous reply (prior to editing) was one I was familiar with going back to the first JW couple who visited me.
That is, Jesus was alongside Jehovah who spoke into existence everything through Jesus who created. Something like that.

I really admired the woman in that first couple. She was so sincere and seemed to care.
Her partner though just wanted out of there. Made me feel of the devil and too heretical to be saved.
In any case, it all sparked the start of me critically analysing my Christian beliefs.

Yet, it is in John 1:3 that we see: "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."

John is here careful to point out all things created came into being through the Word -- which is "a god" according to the JW translation.
So much so, that John stresses "nothing came into being that has come into being" through this Word which was a god.

Thus, the Word identified as "a god" is uncreated.
For if this god were created, then it would have had to have created himself through himself (which is a contradiction of sorts).

So then, what makes better sense in John 1 -- that the Word was the uncreated Jehovah or "a god"?

PS. Since you're not a JW, you can concede if you think I'm making a good point.
It is not good to build up a whole case on one passage alone. So I would not expect this one passage to cause a JW to stop being a JW.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Any questions about JWs I will answer it

Postby Yhwhhallowed » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:15 am

It would be a god cause since it is not capitalised a "god" can mean an angel or something God like.
John 14-6 I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

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Re: Any questions about JWs I will answer it

Postby RickD » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:18 am

Yhwhhallowed wrote:It would be a god cause since it is not capitalised a "god" can mean an angel or something God like.

Yhwhhallowed,

Who do YOU say Jesus Christ is?
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
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St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Any questions about JWs I will answer it

Postby Kurieuo » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:40 am

Yhwhhallowed wrote:It would be a god cause since it is not capitalised a "god" can mean an angel or something God like.

Not capitalised according to the JW translation.

Can "a god" be uncreated or is only Jehovah God uncreated?
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Any questions about JWs I will answer it

Postby Kurieuo » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:52 am

My idea of everything that exists can be split up like this.

All Things That Exist >>

    1) All things that never came into being = GOD
    2) All things that came into being = All created things
In which category does "a god" belong to?
Keep in mind verse 3 which reads: "All things came into existence through him [this "god"], and apart from him not even one thing came into existence." (NWT)
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Any questions about JWs I will answer it

Postby Yhwhhallowed » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:57 am

RickD wrote:
Yhwhhallowed wrote:It would be a god cause since it is not capitalised a "god" can mean an angel or something God like.

Yhwhhallowed,

Who do YOU say Jesus Christ is?



I will give you what JWs believe. Here it is in a nutt shell, since Adam committed the eating of the forbidden fruit he the became into sin and became imperfect. Jesus then was sent down as a perfect human an the seed was then planted into Mary. Jesus during his time her before his death went ahead an put down an example to follow, with showing man the power of God using miracles, healing the blind, sickness, casting out demons. Jesus fed thousand showing the true strength and endless abilities of his Father. Man after Adam became born into sin as Adam became into due to his actions, Jesus came down willing to do his Fathers will. A sacrifice was to be made to give back exactly, or completely equally to what Adam had lost, Jesus was then transformed by his Father to be nothing more then a perfect man. During this Jehovah's witnesses believe that Jesus could have failed because the ransom was to be an equal one in its entirety. This is why Jehovah's witnesses don't celebrate christmas. Adam sinned as perfect man, so could Jesus, Otherwise Satan wouldn't of tried tempting him 3 times if he didn't believe it was possible. His birth has no importance only his death. They believe that he died to cover what man lost completely nothing more, so a heavenly hope is not for man, they believe he died to restore an earthly paradise free of sin, free of imperfection. He diex to give man hope in the everlasting kingdom here on earth. After all why would man get an extra gift of a heavenly hope for being nothing more then a sinner.
John 14-6 I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

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Re: Any questions about JWs I will answer it

Postby Yhwhhallowed » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:07 am

Kurieuo wrote:
Yhwhhallowed wrote:It would be a god cause since it is not capitalised a "god" can mean an angel or something God like.

Not capitalised according to the JW translation.

Can "a god" be uncreated or is only Jehovah God uncreated?


The answer could be here. I give you these links because they can better express the answer you are looking for.
[url]http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20081101/was-the-word-god/#?insight[search_id]=c804f32f-6b61-4ad5-a29c-d1e7745f7024&insight[search_result_index]=1[/url]
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Re: Any questions about JWs I will answer it

Postby RickD » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:16 am

Yhwhhallowed wrote:
RickD wrote:
Yhwhhallowed wrote:It would be a god cause since it is not capitalised a "god" can mean an angel or something God like.

Yhwhhallowed,

Who do YOU say Jesus Christ is?



I will give you what JWs believe. Here it is in a nutt shell, since Adam committed the eating of the forbidden fruit he the became into sin and became imperfect. Jesus then was sent down as a perfect human an the seed was then planted into Mary. Jesus during his time her before his death went ahead an put down an example to follow, with showing man the power of God using miracles, healing the blind, sickness, casting out demons. Jesus fed thousand showing the true strength and endless abilities of his Father. Man after Adam became born into sin as Adam became into due to his actions, Jesus came down willing to do his Fathers will. A sacrifice was to be made to give back exactly, or completely equally to what Adam had lost, Jesus was then transformed by his Father to be nothing more then a perfect man. During this Jehovah's witnesses believe that Jesus could have failed because the ransom was to be an equal one in its entirety. This is why Jehovah's witnesses don't celebrate christmas. Adam sinned as perfect man, so could Jesus, Otherwise Satan wouldn't of tried tempting him 3 times if he didn't believe it was possible. His birth has no importance only his death. They believe that he died to cover what man lost completely nothing more, so a heavenly hope is not for man, they believe he died to restore an earthly paradise free of sin, free of imperfection. He diex to give man hope in the everlasting kingdom here on earth. After all why would man get an extra gift of a heavenly hope for being nothing more then a sinner.

I wasn't asking for what JWs believe. I asked who YOU say Jesus Christ is.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Any questions about JWs I will answer it

Postby Yhwhhallowed » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:32 am

Because when it comes to be personal it causes confliction and this top is not about me
John 14-6 I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

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Re: Any questions about JWs I will answer it

Postby Kurieuo » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:34 am

Yhwhhallowed wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
Yhwhhallowed wrote:It would be a god cause since it is not capitalised a "god" can mean an angel or something God like.

Not capitalised according to the JW translation.

Can "a god" be uncreated or is only Jehovah God uncreated?


The answer could be here. I give you these links because they can better express the answer you are looking for.
[url]http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20081101/was-the-word-god/#?insight[search_id]=c804f32f-6b61-4ad5-a29c-d1e7745f7024&insight[search_result_index]=1[/url]

Let's assume it is "a god". I'm not much phased, in fact, I'm letting it be a given that such is "a god".
So in response to my previous message about which category "a god' should be placed in...
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Any questions about JWs I will answer it

Postby Kurieuo » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:35 am

To repeat my message again:

    All Things That Exist >>

      1) All things that never came into being = GOD
      2) All things that came into being = All created things
    In which category does "a god" belong to?
    Keep in mind verse 3 which reads: "All things came into existence through him [this "god"], and apart from him not even one thing came into existence." (NWT)
I'm asking this of you.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Any questions about JWs I will answer it

Postby RickD » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:37 am

Yhwhhallowed wrote:Because when it comes to be personal it causes confliction and this top is not about me

I'm asking as a moderator. We need to know what you believe, so we know your position.

So, please answer the question.

Thank you
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony


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