Domenic wrote:I have been reading the post on this thread. I see most members believe Jesus is God, and God is Jesus.
I'm a very simple person. I test things in the Bible, which i believe is the word of GodIt has to make simple sense. 1+ 1must
Walk through how my mind works...just remember, I'm not as smart as most of you.
Jesus, the one you call God, I agree Jesus is a God. Do I believe Jesus has an identity problem? No I do not, nor do i believe he makes things up. Let me take you for a little walk;
You, and me are followers of Jesus. We are two the the twelve who followed him two thousand ears ago. ready? I'll call you Bill, and you call me Tom. Lets assume Jesus, is God, and God is Jesus.
"Hay Bill, were did the master go?"
'He's over there by that big rock Tom."
"What is he doing?"
"He's praying to himself."
The following day were all walking, and talking. Jesus says," Don't pray to me, but pray to me through me."
"Bill, what the heck does he mean by that?"
Darn if I know?"
We stop for a short lunch of fish, and bread.
Jesus says, "I am greater than me."
"Bill, how can he be greater than what he is?"
"I don't know Tom...but if he keeps talking this way, I'm going to catch the next camel home."
Jesus is on the cross. He says, "Me, why have you forsaken me?"
"You ready to go back to fishing Tom?"
"yes i am."
As my simple mind goes...if Jesus is God, and God is Jesus, why did he; pray to the father?
Why did he say..."Do not pray to me, but to the father through me."
Why did he say..."The Father is greater than I."
Why did he say..."father, why have you forsaken me?"
And may other things about the father. I know I'm not smart...but I also know I'm not stupid. So help me out here. prove to me Jesus is god, and God is Jesus.
Jesus being God is a doctrine of NATURE. Jesus and His Father have the same nature and if His Father is God, what does that make Jesus? God as well.
So that brings us to God or "a" god, right?
Well, the bible certainly speaks of other Gods and of beings (angels) called sons of God that are viewed/were viewed as gods by some ( even called , in the case of Satan, the god of this world at the time of Jesus and His apostles).
So could Jesus simply be "a god" ?
No, why? because for one thing He is, as John states, WITH GOD and IS GOD. Never is Jesus spoken of as being "a god".
That Jesus calls His Father "His God" is simply a statement of superiour authority and respect that Jesus had for His Father, it is not a denial of them having the same nature.
I suggest you read Paul's writing to Colossians, Philipians and Hebrews, you don't get much clear than these parts (and the GOJ of course):
Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace
Colossians 1:15-16 New English Translation (NET Bible)
The Supremacy of Christ
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation,
16 for all things in heaven and on earth were created in him—all things, whether visible or invisible, whether thrones or dominions, whether principalities or powers—all things were created through him and for him.
Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.
Hebrews 1 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
God’s Final Word in His Son
1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.
5 For to which of the angels did He ever say,
“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
“I will be a Father to Him
And He shall be a Son to Me”?
6 And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says,
“And let all the angels of God worship Him.”
7 And of the angels He says,
“Who makes His angels winds,
And His ministers a flame of fire.”
8 But of the Son He says,
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.
9 “You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness above Your companions.”
“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the works of Your hands;
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they all will become old like a garment,
12 And like a mantle You will roll them up;
Like a garment they will also be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not come to an end.”
13 But to which of the angels has He ever said,
“Sit at My right hand,
Until I make Your enemies
A footstool for Your feet”?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?
And so forth...