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Jehovah witnesses

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:11 pm
by tunde1992
i wonder what would happen if there becomes more than 144 thousand jehovah witnesses?

Re: Jehovah witnesses

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:54 am
by Proinsias
No need to wonder, there's over 7 million atm:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses

Re: Jehovah witnesses

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:35 am
by PaulSacramento
The 144K are ONLY the annointed, those that have the seal of the HS.
According to the JW's there are/will be only 144K "saints", annointed ones ( the annointed class) and only they will be with God in Heaven, the rest of the "great crowd" (only JW's of course) will live on Earth.
The governing body releases the number of the annointed every year since only they can partake of the Lord's Supper BUT they also make it clear that not ALL of those that partake ARE annointed and that some may just THINK they are ( and might even have mental problems) and as such, no one ever knows how many TRUE annointed there are or have been.
When the full number of 144K is reached then the end MUST come.

Re: Jehovah witnesses

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:20 am
by theophilus
Here is a good place to find out more about Jehovah's Witnesses from a Biblical perspective:

http://wit.irr.org/

Re: Jehovah witnesses

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:31 am
by PaulSacramento
theophilus wrote:Here is a good place to find out more about Jehovah's Witnesses from a Biblical perspective:

http://wit.irr.org/


One of the biggest "advantages" that the JW's have is that they are far better prepared to deal with questions than the average Christian.
Yes their defense of their doctrines is typically NOT biblical and when it is it is based on their interpretation of their own translation, the NWT.
Yes they attack Christian doctrine base don THEIR incorrect interpretation of those doctrines.
BUT they get away with it because the typical christian knows very little about their own religion.

Re: Jehovah witnesses

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:36 am
by Sam1995
PaulSacramento wrote:
theophilus wrote:Here is a good place to find out more about Jehovah's Witnesses from a Biblical perspective:

http://wit.irr.org/


One of the biggest "advantages" that the JW's have is that they are far better prepared to deal with questions than the average Christian.
Yes their defense of their doctrines is typically NOT biblical and when it is it is based on their interpretation of their own translation, the NWT.
Yes they attack Christian doctrine base don THEIR incorrect interpretation of those doctrines.
BUT they get away with it because the typical christian knows very little about their own religion.


The mental image that puts in my head, of a JW asking a Christian look silly, makes me feel sad inside. We have the answers, just not that many of us feel inclined to find them

[But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, - 1 Peter 3:15 NIV]

SB

Re: Jehovah witnesses

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:14 am
by PaulSacramento
The JW's are very good at making it SEEM like they know the bible.
They don't.
They know their view of the bible, that is all.

Re: Jehovah witnesses

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:44 pm
by 1stjohn0666
The NWT is an okay translation, I have one. I use it when having dialogue with JW's then resort to my Septuagint or other Greek rendering versions Both OT and NT. Some of my JW friends call it quits with me when I get the Greek out LOL

Re: Jehovah witnesses

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:42 am
by PaulSacramento
1stjohn0666 wrote:The NWT is an okay translation, I have one. I use it when having dialogue with JW's then resort to my Septuagint or other Greek rendering versions Both OT and NT. Some of my JW friends call it quits with me when I get the Greek out LOL

IN terms of the OT, yes it is "ok", but it alters and twists the NT fopr too much to be a reliable translation.
The NWT is a translation based on JW's doctrine.
The JW's used to use the ASV or the KJ but they clashed with some of the doctrines they later created so they made their own translation ( the primary, perhaps even sole translator was Fred Franz, later to the president and member of the governing body) to be more in line with JW doctrines.

Re: Jehovah witnesses

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:24 pm
by 1stjohn0666
I think the NT rendering of the NWT is just as "okay" as the OT. I have never read an English rendering version of scripture translated perfectly!! Example: Jesus does not "return" to his father as the NIV states. Because the NWT chooses a different rendering of a word like "ho theos" and supplies Jehovah, is just fine. When Jesus is the subject, the NWT renders Jesus appropriately. The Greek word en is "in, by, with, through, etc." What the translator chooses to use is up to the translator. This is what is called "translator bias" Most versions supply to us translator bias in the English!! The KJV uses "en" all things created (en) by him.. meaning Jesus is creator. Most English versions render Col 1:16 "by" him. But it is interesting to see that not all versions use the same rendering. The ESV gives a real nice maybe confusing footnote. I use "in" him. As I do not believe Jesus is Yaweh. Yaweh alone created, not some silly "we" idea ref Isa 44:24 This means that I do not believe the son is the Father by proper name.

Re: Jehovah witnesses

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:44 pm
by RickD
1stjohn0666 wrote:I think the NT rendering of the NWT is just as "okay" as the OT. I have never read an English rendering version of scripture translated perfectly!! Example: Jesus does not "return" to his father as the NIV states. Because the NWT chooses a different rendering of a word like "ho theos" and supplies Jehovah, is just fine. When Jesus is the subject, the NWT renders Jesus appropriately. The Greek word en is "in, by, with, through, etc." What the translator chooses to use is up to the translator. This is what is called "translator bias" Most versions supply to us translator bias in the English!! The KJV uses "en" all things created (en) by him.. meaning Jesus is creator. Most English versions render Col 1:16 "by" him. But it is interesting to see that not all versions use the same rendering. The ESV gives a real nice maybe confusing footnote. I use "in" him. As I do not believe Jesus is Yaweh. Yaweh alone created, not some silly "we" idea ref Isa 44:24 This means that I do not believe the son is the Father by proper name.

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Re: Jehovah witnesses

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:47 pm
by Furstentum Liechtenstein
1stjohn0666 wrote:I think the NT rendering of the NWT is just as "okay" as the OT.


Okay. I'm fine with that and think that you can believe whatever you want to believe. You should modify your profile to say that you are not a Christian. Or, a moderator should do that since I don't think you would. As it is, you are in the same position as a Muslim who says ''We believe in Jesus too!''

FL :shakehead:

Re: Jehovah witnesses

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:25 pm
by 1stjohn0666
I am Christian, just maybe not the garden variety as others. Let's see here what 30,000+ Christian denomination should I be?
LOL Rick banging his head.

Re: Jehovah witnesses

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:50 pm
by B. W.
Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:
1stjohn0666 wrote:I think the NT rendering of the NWT is just as "okay" as the OT.


Okay. I'm fine with that and think that you can believe whatever you want to believe. You should modify your profile to say that you are not a Christian. Or, a moderator should do that since I don't think you would. As it is, you are in the same position as a Muslim who says ''We believe in Jesus too!''

FL :shakehead:


1stjohn0666 wrote:I am Christian, just maybe not the garden variety as others. Let's see here what 30,000+ Christian denomination should I be?
LOL Rick banging his head.


FL is correct - you are not Christian 1stjohnny - you deny who Jesus is and so far cannot explain the gospel message of Christ at all...
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Re: Jehovah witnesses

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:47 am
by 1stjohn0666
I do not deny who Christ is!! He is the Messiah, Son of God. What part of the gospel message would you like me to explain?