The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby Audie » Tue May 10, 2016 4:22 pm

Im no physicist but I studied enough to see how "illogical"
and counterintuitive it gets.

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abelcainsbrother
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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby abelcainsbrother » Tue May 10, 2016 4:26 pm

Audie wrote:Im no physicist but I studied enough to see how "illogical"
and counterintuitive it gets.


The Big Bang Theory is much more sound science based on the evidence than the theory of evolution is.I mean Phycisists can atleast take us all the way back as far as telescopes can see and we can tell the universe is expanding.Why can't Biologists do this when it comes to the theory of evolution?
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby Audie » Tue May 10, 2016 5:22 pm

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Audie wrote:Im no physicist but I studied enough to see how "illogical"
and counterintuitive it gets.


The Big Bang Theory is much more sound science based on the evidence than the theory of evolution is.I mean Phycisists can atleast take us all the way back as far as telescopes can see and we can tell the universe is expanding.Why can't Biologists do this when it comes to the theory of evolution?



You changed the subject just to say the most enbarrassingly ill-informed things.

Why, why, why dont you just spend half the time expressing how little you know, in some actual study?
Amazing, the correlation between stufy and learning.

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abelcainsbrother
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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby abelcainsbrother » Tue May 10, 2016 8:59 pm

It then goes on to say this :

WHAT GAP THEORISTS ALLEGE

There are two major linguistic arguments cited in favor of Gap Theory. First, Gap theorists begin by understanding the term bārā’ in Genesis 1 to mean “create” (from nothing), and ‘āsāh to mean “restore” (at a later time). The bārā’ creation marks the initial stage of Creation in which God set the world into motion by fiat. One of the earliest Gap theorists, George H. Pember, wrote over 100 years ago: “For we are told that in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth; but the Scriptures never affirm that He did this in the six days. The work of those days was…quite a different thing from the original creation: they were times of restoration, and the word asah [sic] is used in connection with them” (1907, pp. 22-23).


Here are the definitions for bara and asah


Here are the definitions of "asah" and "bara"

asah
Phonetic: aw-saw'
BDB Definition:
to do, fashion, accomplish, make
(Qal)
to do, work, make, produce
to do
to work
to deal (with)
to act, act with effect, effect
to make
to make
to produce
to prepare
to make (an offering)
to attend to, put in order
to observe, celebrate
to acquire (property)
to appoint, ordain, institute
to bring about
to use
to spend, pass
(Niphal)
to be done
to be made
to be produced
to be offered
to be observed
to be used
(Pual) to be made
(Piel) to press, squeeze

Bara

baw-raw'
BDB Definition:
to create, shape, form
(Qal) to shape, fashion, create (always with God as subject)
of heaven and earth
of individual man
of new conditions and circumstances
of transformations
(Niphal) to be created
of heaven and earth
of birth
of something new
of miracles
(Piel)
to cut down
to cut out
to be fat
(Hiphil) to make yourselves fat
Origin: a primitive root
TWOT entry: 278
Part(s) of speech: Verb
Strong's Definition: A primitive root; (absolutely) to create ; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes): - choose

As you can see asah can never be something new but bara is always something new.This is the major difference between "bara" and "asah" Created is bara and made is asah. And whenever we see bara/created it is always something new God created and when we see asah/made it is not ever something new,it had already been created before and it is God working on something,that had already been done before based on "to attend to,put in order" which means it already existed or had existed based on context of the verse. Go over this a few times and understand this.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby abelcainsbrother » Tue May 10, 2016 9:46 pm

It goes on:

Within churches of Christ, John Clayton has been an active proponent of the insights of Gap Theory, although his actual position defies precise categorization. Thompson refers to it as the “modified Gap Theory,” although Clayton himself is rather coy about labeling his position (2000, pp. 281-296). Like others, Clayton also appeals to the Hebrew language to defend his version of the theory. Unfortunately, like the Gap theorists, he too states bārā’ is a miraculous creation from nothing, even going so far as to suggest Genesis 1:1 implies the “Big Bang” (Clayton, 2015, p. 90). Like the Gap theorists, Clayton also parrots the view that ‘āsāh means “reworking existing material” (2011, p. 207). If Clayton were to read the rest of the Hebrew Bible, or even the rest of Genesis, he would learn that his definitions are impossible to maintain (as we shall demonstrate).


I have not heard of John Clayton and his "modified Gap theory" but I might look into it.But for now I'm just going to stick to the normal Gap Theory. No! as we read through the rest of the Hebrew bible,or even the rest of Genesis,you are going to learn these definitions are not impossible to maintain (as I will demonstrate) and remain the same throughout and that you are wrong.

It goes on :

By interpreting the Hebrew in this fashion, Gap theorists believe they can accommodate an Earth billions of years old without compromising the essential integrity of the Genesis account. The bārā’ stage of Creation occurs first (Genesis 1:1), and, after centuries or even billions of years, the ‘āsāh stage of Creation occurs (the “six days,” Genesis 1:2ff.). Unfortunately, Gap theorists focus their attention, so far as the Hebrew is concerned, principally on Genesis 1 and Exodus 20:11 (taken as proof of the ‘āsāh stage of Creation). Again, if they were to read the entire Hebrew Bible, however, they would learn their position to be linguistically untenable, as we shall demonstrate.


This is a fact that you or no Hebrew scholor today can refute.In Genesis 1 the only time something happens is when God speaks,until God speaks nothing happens and God does not speak until verse 3 on the first day in Genesis 1.So before God speaks the heavens and the earth already exist and we can atleast say that we do not know how long it was until God spoke in verse 3.But we know the heavens and the earth already exist and it very well could have been billions of years until God spoke in Genesis 1:3. This is how we Gap Theorists know that we can accommodate billions of years into the text,but we can also say that this does away from claiming the earth is 6000 years old too,because we cannot know how long it was before God spoke in verse 3,even if we knew nothing about science.

Yes in Genesis 1 God made it in six days Genesis 2:2 and Exodus 20:11 just reiterates it.And since we see the word made in Exodus 20:11 we know it was not something new and God just put it in order and attended to it or restored it,we can say. Again,if you were to read the rest of the Hebrew bible you would learn this position is linguistically tenable,as I will demonstrate.

It goes on :

Second, Gap theorists allege the grammar of Genesis 1:2 implies a gap. Basically, three arguments are made from the Hebrew: (1) The Hebrew waw is disjunctive, and thus implies an interruption in the narration from what is reported in Genesis 1:1. This interruption signals a chronological “gap”; (2) The verb form “was” (hāyetāh)should be translated “became,” signaling a new beginning beyond the bārā’ creation of Genesis 1:1; and (3) The nouns traditionally translated “without form and void” (tōhū vā-vōhū) imply a degeneration of the original Creation, and thus what follows is a re-creation.


Yes because we know God created the heavens and the earth in the beginning but we can see the earth became without form and void.There is no reason biblically to think God creates junk and then decorates it.It was not a re-creation,it was a restoration of the earth that had became without form and void so that God could make this world on the earth and create man in his image.No wonder Satan who had been Lucifer but had rebelled was after man from the beginning.God created man in his image and then gave man dominion over the earth.Satan was ticked off.We could say in the former world God tested angels and Lucifer and a third of the angels rebelled and in this world he is testing man and we failed so God had to come and save us with Satan doing everything he can to disrupt it.

It goes on :

We shall proceed to discuss and evaluate these Hebrew linguistic arguments, beginning first with the question of bārā’ and ‘āsāh, and then turning to the grammar of Genesis 1:2 specifically. In the course of our analysis, the linguistic evidence for the Gap Theory will be shown to be lacking?


Let's do it,because you will be lacking.
Last edited by abelcainsbrother on Sat May 14, 2016 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby abelcainsbrother » Fri May 13, 2016 1:39 am

It then goes on to talk about the Vocabulary of Creation and I have no disagreements with it,however we are only focused on "bara" and asah" because of Genesis 2:2-4 where Moses stresses for us to know the difference.

It then goes on :

The Genesis account uses no less than four terms to describe Creation. The terms best known are bārā’ (“create”) and ‘āsāh (“make”), although yātsar (“form”) and bānāh (“build”) are also found. Man is “formed” (yātsar) from the dirt (Genesis 2:7-8), and woman is “built” (bānāh) from man (Genesis 2:22). The bulk of attention, however, has centered around bārā’ and ‘āsāh, the most frequent of these four words in the Creation account. Gap theorists allege these terms refer to very different stages of Creation, billions of years apart. We shall see that, while this theory is attractive at the macro-level, the Hebrew terminology simply will not bear the burden of proof Gap theorists load upon it.


Nope! the terms are like this bara(create) and asah(made) NOT make.Some newer translation use done instead of made where we see the word asah but we focus on the Hebrew meaning of these words regardless of the english words used in the translation.
And Nope the Hebrew terminology will bear the burden of proof Gap Theorists load upon it.

It then goes on :

bārā’ and ‘āsāh

We should begin by noting that the Bible uses multiple terms to describe God’s creative activity. Across the Old Testament, in Hebrew and Aramaic, one can locate no less than 13 different terms for Creation! So Israelite Creation theology is not as simple as making a facile distinction between bārā’ and ‘āsāh. In fact, these terms are used interchangeably of God’s creative activity.


Yes I agree the bible uses multiple terms to describe God's creative activity however we are only going to focus on "bara" and "asah" because Moses told us to Genesis 2:2-4.He did not tell us to focus on the other terms and so we are'nt going to focus on them.Only "bara" and "asah" and they are not used interchangeably.

It then goes on :

Even in the Genesis account itself, bārā’ and ‘āsāh are used together to summarize God’s creative work: “These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created” (bārā’), that is, at the time when (literally, “in the day that”) Yahweh God made (‘āsāh)earth and heaven” (Genesis 2:4; translation mine). The careful reader will notice that the second half of this verse explains and completes the first. We have here what literary scholars call a chiasm, in which the sentence can be broken into two or more parts, and the various components of the sentence parallel one another in introverted fashion (for more on chiasm, see Dorsey, 1999). Allow me to illustrate:

These are the generations of…

a—the heavens and the earth
b—when they were created
b’—at the time when Yahweh God made
a’—the earth and the heavens

Notice that the first and final components (a and a’) are flipped, signaling the inverted nature of the verse, and they also highlight the verse’s synonymous parallelism (both halves convey exactly the same idea). Also note the parallelism of b and b’. The whole of the Creation narrative could be described by both Hebrew terms. So the forced distinction made by Gap theorists between bārā’ and ‘āsāh is already shown to be artificial in the Genesis account itself. But we can go further.


You went strait to Genesis 2:4 skipping over verse 2 and 3 but we do not need to do that because Moses gives us important information in them that we don't need to overlook.
Genesis 2:2-4 "2.And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had MADE(asah);and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had MADE(asah).3.And God blessed the seventh day,and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created(bara) and made(asah).4.These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created(bara),in the day the Lord God MADE(asah) the earth and the heavens.

Do you see what he has done to make Genesis 2:4 say what he wants it to say? He has added "at the time" to the verse and is twisting what it says which is wrong.But lets not over look what we see in Genesis 2:2-4 above. We see in verse 2 that the word (asah) is used two times.Moses is wanting us to notice this and that in the six days God MADE it,he did not create it.So all of the work in the 6 days was God working on what had already been created in the beginning Genesis 1:1.Because something had happened to the heaven and earth in Genesis 1:2.Notice that they already exist though before God speaks in Genesis 1:3 and nothing happens until God speaks.
However in verse 3 it tells us God rested from all of his work he CREATED(bara) and MADE(asah) Now is this a contradiction? No,because if you read what God does in the six days he CREATED(bara)somethings and he MADE(asah) some things and Moses wants us to notice this when we read Geness 1, because when we do? It will open up so much more understanding because we will see that the things God MADE(asah) in the six days had already existed before or they still exist based on the context of the verse but God also CREATED(bara) NEW things too.Things were not just created or made in the six days,he did both.
But then in verse 4 we can see that there were generations of the heavens and of the earth that God created(bara), in the day that the Lord God MADE(asah) the earth and the heavens. Notice that in the first part of the verse when it is talking about the generations it says heavens first and then earth,but in the latter part when it is talking about in the day he made(asah) it,it says EARTH first and then Heavens. This is telling us that in the beginning whenever God created it he created the heavens and the earth but in the day he MADE it he just restored the earth and heavens.This is why when you read what God did in the six days you see God restores the earth first and then the heavens and then he both MADE somethings but he CREATED and MADE life too after he restored the earth and heavens.
But based on this verse 4 we know the heavens and earth are old because there were generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created,but we see they were made too. Now newer translations have removed the phrase"These are the generations" because they are trying to push a young earth bias but it should be in the foot notes of the bible letting you know.
They heaven and earth were created and the earth and heavens were made,and since Genesis 2:2 told us God MADE (asah) it in the six days we know these six days were the days God MADE it.But he had created it in the beginning whenever that was so we know something happened to where God made the earth and heavens,and we know they were restored in the six days.The word asah (made) or done in some newer translations never refers to something new God did, only created or bara does. It is very important that you learn the difference like Moses told us in Genesis 2:2-4 and not ignore it like YEC's do. I recommend Bible Hub.com to study this because they have many translations and you can check the Hebrew too.
Last edited by abelcainsbrother on Sun May 15, 2016 12:31 am, edited 4 times in total.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby abelcainsbrother » Fri May 13, 2016 1:42 am

Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby abelcainsbrother » Tue May 17, 2016 12:50 am

It then goes on to say this :

The terms bārā’ and ‘āsāh are routinely used in parallel with one another, both in Genesis and elsewhere in the Hebrew Bible.

God both “created” (bārā’) and “made” (‘āsāh) Adam (Genesis 5:1).
God will destroy man whom He has “created” (bārā’), along with every living thing, for He was sorry that He had “made” (‘āsāh) them (Genesis 6:7).
The hand of God “has done” (‘āsāh) it, and God Himself “created” (bārā’) it (Isaiah 41:20).
God has “created” (bārā’) and “made” (‘āsāh) for His glory (Isaiah 43:7).
God has “made” (‘āsāh) Earth and “created” (bārā’) man on it (Isaiah 45:12).
God “made” (‘āsāh) and “created” (bārā’) the Earth (Isaiah 45:18).
God “creates” (bārā’) wind and “makes” (‘āsāh) darkness (Amos 4:13).


They are trying to show that the words "bara" and "asah" are interchangeable. So let's go through them and see.

Genesis 5:1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam.In the day that God created(bara) man,in the likeness of God made(asah) he him." We need verse 2 too. Genesis 5:2 "Male and female created(bara) he them,and blessed them,and called their name Adam,in the day they were created(bara).

Since bara always refers to something new how can he say they are interchangeable? First off in verse 1 it sais that God Created(bara) man and this means it was a brand new creation that had never been created before but then it tells us man was made(asah) in the likeness of God. So we have a new creation man made in the likeness of God. Based on the definition of "asah" this means "to appoint,ordain,institute" or "fashion" man in the likeness of God unlike the other life God both made and created in Genesis 1.Only man was made in the likeness of God and that is all this applies to. Verse 2 let's us know male and female were created(bara) in the day they were created(bara) which means these were new creations that God had never created before.

They then give Genesis 6:7 but we need verse 6 and 7."And it repented the Lord that he had made(asah) man on the earth,and it grieved him at his heart."verse 7 "And the Lord said,I will destroy man whom I have created(bara)from the face of the earth;both man,and beast,and the creeping thing,and the fowls of the air; for it repented me that I had made(asah) them.

asah means "to appoint,ordain,institute" or "fashion" it does not means new like bara does. But also the first asah in verse 6 means "to appoint,ordain,institute" or "fashion" we see asah in verse 7 too. No interchangeability like they claim.

Isaiah 43:7 "Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created(bara - new) him for my glory,I have formed him;yeah and have made(asah - to appoint,ordain,institute" or "fashion"). No interchangeability like they claim.

Isaiah 45:12 "I have made(asah) the earth,and created(bara) man upon it: I,even my hands have stretched out the heavens,and all their host have I commanded."

When we see asah we must consider the context of the verse and this is just reiterating Genesis 2:2 and Exodus 20:11 which we went over earlier. asah in this context means "to attend to,put in order" or restore we could say.And it just reiterates that God created man new. Again no interchangeability like they claim.

Isaiah 45:18 "For thus saith the Lord that created(bara) the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made(asah) it;he hath established it,he created(bara) it not in vain(tohu),he created(bara) it to be inhabited: I am the Lord;and there is none else.

A Gap Theorist uses this verse quite a bit to show that God did not create the earth in a without form and void state like it sais in Genesis 1:2 he created it to be inhabited from the beginning. So that whenever it was created in the beginning it was inhabited but we can see that it became without form and void and this is why God made(asah) it too.

We know it was inhabited in the beginning too and we know angels including Lucifer had already been created Job 38:4-7 "Where was thou when I laid the foundation of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who laid the measures thereof,if thou knowest? or who stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the cornerstone thereof; When the morning stars sang together,and all the sons of God shouted for joy." So the angels shouted for joy including Lucifer when God created the earth in the beginning. This lets us know that angels existed before God created the earth and they were amazed at what God did and they shouted for joy. No interchangeability still.

Amos 4:13 "For, lo, he hath formed the mountains,and createth(bara) the wind,and declareth unto man what is his thought, that maketh(asah)the morning darkness,and treadeth upon the high places of the earth, The Lord, The God of hosts, is his name."

Still no interchangeability as you can see and we have went through every scripture they gave to try to show they are. Now,why would they claim "bara" and "asah" are interchangeable when as we can see they are not? It is from being taught wrong but it just accepted today and passed around as the truth.But as we can see they are not interchangeable.

It then goes on to say this :

As any careful reader of the Bible will observe, the Hebrew language does not make a sharp distinction between bārā’ and ‘āsāh in accounts depicting the Creation. On the contrary, the terms are used interchangeably for Creation throughout the Old Testament, and can often be found in parallel expressions.


False bible teaching.
Last edited by abelcainsbrother on Tue May 17, 2016 11:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby abelcainsbrother » Tue May 17, 2016 12:59 am

I've went back through all of this and kindof fine tuned it.So if you're interested? You can go back through it.I may go back over it in the future and fine tune some more or update with new information I get.So if you're interested? You might need to read through it again.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby abelcainsbrother » Fri May 20, 2016 10:35 pm

It then goes on :

Now, this does not mean that bārā’ and ‘āsāh are always synonymous terms. The word bārā’ occurs 53 times in the Bible, and generally has to do with an initial act, or a new beginning. For example, God “creates something new” at the punishment of Korah and his company (Numbers 16:30). He “makes a new beginning” of Israel after the Babylonian Exile (Isaiah 41:20). The term represents a change—a new beginning—in the natural order as well (Isaiah 65:15; Jeremiah 31:22).


"Bara" is always something new God creates or does but "asah" is not and it depends on the context of the verse as to how we interpret it.

It then goes on :

So, in addition to creation, which is always an “initial act” on God’s part, subsequent divine intervention after creation can also be depicted by the word bārā’. This explains why the term can be used of the creation of man. He was a new creature, a new beginning, in the process. If Gap theorists were correct, any usage of bārā’ after the initialGenesis Creation would be inappropriate. This clearly is not the case.


No it would'nt because God can create new things as he did with man and certian kinds of life he created,but he also made certian life too in Genesis 1 so we know the kinds of life God made was not new kinds of life,it is life that God had already created new before.We can understand this as we read Genesis 1 if we do what Moses said to do in Genesis 2:2-4 - know the difference between "bara" and "asah" and it opens up so much more understanding when we read Genesis 1. However if we read Genesis 1 and do not realize the difference and we think they are interchangable we will probably think that all of the life God created and made was only created new,which is wrong. The truth is God both made and created things in Genesis 1.And when it comes to life? He made and created them "after their kind" too which reveals something important that we need to know.Genesis 1:25 "And God made(asah) the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind,and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:21 "And God created(bara) great whales/sea creatures,and every living creature that moveth,which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind,and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. So we know life had existed before and this is more evidence the heavens and earth are old and something happened in Genesis 1:2 and they became like that.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby abelcainsbrother » Sun May 22, 2016 1:48 am

Regeneration In biology, regeneration is the process of renewal, restoration, and growth that makes genomes, cells, organisms, and ecosystems resilient to natural fluctuations or events that cause disturbance or damage.
Regeneration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2FMeni7pHc
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Creation Position: Gap Theory

Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby abelcainsbrother » Wed May 25, 2016 12:22 am

It then goes on :

The term ‘āsāh, by comparison,has a much broader semantic range. This term occurs 2,627 times, making it one of the most common verbs in the Bible. In addition to meaning “make,” ‘āsāh is the standard verb for “do, act, or perform” in Hebrew. It often means to “keep” the Law (Deuteronomy 5:32), to manufacture a product (1 Samuel 8:12), to “carve” (Ezekiel 41:18), to “work” miracles (Deuteronomy 34:11), to “make” money in the colloquial English sense (Deuteronomy 8:17), to “make” a name for oneself (Genesis 11:4), to “make” dinner or a meal (Judges 6:19), to “make” peace (Isaiah 27:5), to “work” a job (Ruth 2:19), and many other possible nuances. In short, many of the same meanings we can assign to the English verbs “make,” “do,” “work,” “perform,” “act,” and the like can also be ascribed to the Hebrew ‘āsāh.


They are trying to trick you in this paragraph hoping you don't notice how they are trying to use other words besides "asah" to confuse you.They are ignoring Genesis 2:2-4 to try to confuse you. "asah" does not also mean "make" like an example would be "And God said let us MAKE man in our image". The word "asah" is not anywhere in this,it is a different hebrew word than asah translated into MAKE. But like I said based on Genesis 2:2-4 we are only going to focus on "bara" and "asah" like Moses told us to. Gap Creationists did not just make this up about "bara" and "asah" and knowing the difference it came from reading and studying Genesis 2:2-4.This is how I already know they are not interchangeable but I have checked just to be sure.Moses would not call our attention to these words if it somehow changed throughout the OT which is why they don't and won't.

He gives Deuteronomy 5:32 and yet "asah" cannot be found anywhere in this verse.
Neither is "asah" found in 1 Samuel 8:12.Neither is "asah" in Ezekiel 41:18. Neither is "asah' in Deuteronomy 34:11.Neither is "asah" in Deuteronomy 8:17.Neither is "asah" in Genesis 11:4.Neither is "asah" in Judges 6:19.Neither is "asah" in Isaiah 27:5.Neither is "asah" in Ruth 2:19. See what they are doing trying to confuse you about what "asah" means? They are ignoring "asah" and using different Hebrew words than "asah" which are irrelevant to this topic.


It then goes on and says this :

The word ‘āsāh basically has to do with producing something through work, and it may or may not imply pre-existing material. Passages echoing Genesis 1:1 routinely use ‘āsāh instead of bārā’ (e.g., 1 Chronicles 16:26; Nehemiah 9:6; Psalm 33:6; Isaiah 45:12). This fact implies that, while these two terms can be used interchangeably of Creation, one emphasizes the production of a new thing (whether at Creation or afterward), and the other refers to the work involved in producing a thing (whether at Creation or afterward).


No "asah" has to do with working on something that had already been created new before or once existed based on the context of the verse where "asah" is used.This is why it does have something to do with pre-existing materials. Like for instance when God made animals they were made out of pre-existing materials that already existed however they had died and no longer existed until God worked and made them out of pre-existing materials based after the kinds of life that had lived before. Interestingly, man cannot create like God can,things can only be made by man out of pre-existing materials.Only God can create something out of nothing like in Genesis 1:1 but things can be made by God also.

Now let's go through these verses they give trying to claim "bara" and "asah" mean pretty much the same thing and are interchangeable.
1 Chronicles 16:26 and "asah" is used in this verse where we see the word "made"."For all the god's of the people are idols: but the Lord made(asah) the heavens." God worked on the heavens that already existed.
Nehemiah 9:6 "Thou,even thou,art Lord alone;thou hast made(asiah) heaven,the heaven of heavens, with all their host,the earth,and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee." God worked on these things to restore them.
"asah" is not in Psalm 36:6
"asah" is not in Isaiah 45:12 also however the words "have made" are used but again it is just God working on something that had already been created or had existed before.Again they give verses that do not have the word "asah" in them and so they are irrelevant to this topic.

These people are teaching false things but Gap Creationists are right.
Last edited by abelcainsbrother on Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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abelcainsbrother
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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby abelcainsbrother » Wed May 25, 2016 12:32 am

Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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abelcainsbrother
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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby abelcainsbrother » Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:28 am

It then goes on to say:

The Vocabulary of Creation in the Hebrew Bible

The Creation is one of the most commonly discussed biblical accounts in later biblical literature. The poetry of the Old Testament, particularly in the Psalms and Isaiah 40-55, is rich in Creation terminology. God has a claim on the lives of his people (and on the world!) becauseHe is the Creator of everything. It thus makes sense that the Hebrew language would feature many terms to express one of its most basic theological principles.


I agree creation is one of the most commonly discussed biblical accounts however I don't like how you are ignoring the meanings of "bara" and "asah" and then using different Hebrew words that do not have these words in the text in order to dismiss what Gap Creationists have been explaining for years.You are allowing your bias to effect how you interpret the bible and it is wrong to do so.We are warned not to add or take away from God's word.And as far as the Hebrew language we are focused on " bara" and "asah" not so much the other Hebrew words even if they are verbs too.It is not that we should ignore them but that they are irrelevant to this discussion based on Genesis 2:2-4.

It then goes on:

The biblical terms for Creation are represented in the chart above. As one can observe, the terminology of Creation in the Bible is rich and varied. Many of these terms are used in parallel to one another, indicating their synonymous nature insofar as Creation is concerned. These terms also illustrate that the Israelites viewed God’s Creation holistically. God “brought creation into initial existence.” God “formed creation.” God “begat” Creation (in a figurative sense). God “established,” “founded,” “acquired,” “spread out,” and “made” every created thing. The full lexicon of Hebrew manufacturing is applied to Creation to illustrate that, in a single period of time, God set the world into existence, just as in a single moment He will destroy it (2 Peter 3:10).


Wrong! God created and made things throughout the OT.Yes in the future the earth will be destroyed by fire instead of water like it was in Genesis 1:2 and restored again after that just like before only this time it will be forever.Which will make it two times God has restored the heavens and earth and three heavens and earth's.You'll find the number 3 throughout the bible like with the trinity,Jesus rose on the third day,etc and we are being restored ourself through the salvation Jesus offers us.We come to Jesus in a fallen chaos state just as we are and like the heavens and earth were in Genesis 1:2 and we are restored throughout our Christian life.You'll find restoration throughout the bible.
Last edited by abelcainsbrother on Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:15 am, edited 3 times in total.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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abelcainsbrother
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Posts: 4238
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Creation Position: Gap Theory

Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby abelcainsbrother » Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:01 am

Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.


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