The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

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abelcainsbrother
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The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby abelcainsbrother » Sun May 08, 2016 3:57 pm

In this thread I am going to refute a refutation of the Gap Theory.Now since it is a kindof long refutation of the Gap Theory I'm going to try to be as precise as I can in my refutation of this refutation. I'm going to take my time and try to address every point of contention over time.So,if you're interested? Stay tuned.You are welcome to make comments.

Here is the refutation of the Gap Theory and you can read it. It sounds right,by the way,but I'm going to try to show why it is'nt.I'm going to do it over time.I may even find more refutations and try to refute them also,as time goes on.
http://apologeticspress.org/apcontent.a ... ticle=5262
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby RickD » Sun May 08, 2016 4:19 pm

Can we present a refutation of your refutation of the refutation, if I allow you to present a refutation of my refutation of your refutation of the refutation?
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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abelcainsbrother
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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby abelcainsbrother » Sun May 08, 2016 4:23 pm

RickD wrote:Can we present a refutation of your refutation of the refutation, if I allow you to present a refutation of my refutation of your refutation of the refutation


Yes,of course.But I prefer it be more biblically based which is what I'm going to try to do.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby RickD » Sun May 08, 2016 5:23 pm

ACB,

If the article you linked is as much of straw man and pile of misrepresentations as their article on progressive creationism, then you could probably refute it in your sleep.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby Audie » Sun May 08, 2016 5:36 pm

How is it that an adult can possibly fail to recognize woo woo when it is that freakin'
obvious?

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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby RickD » Sun May 08, 2016 5:49 pm

Audie wrote:How is it that an adult can possibly fail to recognize woo woo when it is that freakin'
obvious?

What's woo woo? Is that the president of China?
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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abelcainsbrother
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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby abelcainsbrother » Sun May 08, 2016 5:57 pm

RickD wrote:ACB,

If the article you linked is as much of straw man and pile of misrepresentations as their article on progressive creationism, then you could probably refute it in your sleep.


I did'nt know that.But maybe you can understand the frustration when it is refuted by people who misrepresent the theory or interpretation.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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abelcainsbrother
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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby abelcainsbrother » Sun May 08, 2016 5:58 pm

Audie wrote:How is it that an adult can possibly fail to recognize woo woo when it is that freakin'
obvious?


Proverbs 18:13
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby RickD » Sun May 08, 2016 6:06 pm

abelcainsbrother wrote:
RickD wrote:ACB,

If the article you linked is as much of straw man and pile of misrepresentations as their article on progressive creationism, then you could probably refute it in your sleep.


I did'nt know that.But maybe you can understand the frustration when it is refuted by people who misrepresent the theory or interpretation.

Yes I understand. It may or may not be intentional.

I don't understand why someone would make up a straw man Gap Theory to refute, when the real Gap Theory is so easy to refute. Know what I mean? :mrgreen:
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Audie
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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby Audie » Sun May 08, 2016 6:34 pm

RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:How is it that an adult can possibly fail to recognize woo woo when it is that freakin'
obvious?

What's woo woo? Is that the president of China?


Were you the one thinking I am like a moldy old timer for not knowing
FIFY, an anachronym that has multiple meanings?

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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby Audie » Sun May 08, 2016 6:42 pm

RickD wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:
RickD wrote:ACB,

If the article you linked is as much of straw man and pile of misrepresentations as their article on progressive creationism, then you could probably refute it in your sleep.


I did'nt know that.But maybe you can understand the frustration when it is refuted by people who misrepresent the theory or interpretation.

Yes I understand. It may or may not be intentional.

I don't understand why someone would make up a straw man Gap Theory to refute, when the real Gap Theory is so easy to refute. Know what I mean? :mrgreen:


It is different with ToE. Whether thro' ignorance or cynicism, the arguments brought forth to
attack it are without fail misrepresentations, distortions and / or half truths.

Except of course when they are strawmen, ordinary prevarications or damn lies.
Or sometimes fantasies about the devil-duped WWCOSTLTEAE*

Those who are actually educated in the disciplies dont even try to dispute ToE, as they
know nobody has ever uncovered one contrary fact.

* world wide committee of scientists to lie to everyone about evolution.

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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby Audie » Sun May 08, 2016 6:45 pm

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Audie wrote:How is it that an adult can possibly fail to recognize woo woo when it is that freakin'
obvious?


Proverbs 18:13



Mantra -chanting doesn't seem to have taught you anything useful about
recognizing woo woo.

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abelcainsbrother
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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby abelcainsbrother » Sun May 08, 2016 10:56 pm

This first paragraph says this :
At the center of scientific inquiry is a desire to express free thought. “Go wherever your mind leads you” is the academic cry that hearkens back at least to the Enlightenment. For Bible believers, however, this mantra has its limits. If one’s pursuit of so-called “knowledge” leads him to deny the divinity of Christ or the existence of God, then he has become a victim of intellectual deceit. The philosophical constructs causing him to reach these conclusions must be reexamined if not rejected. Such is the case with many modern theories of universal origins. By eliminating God as the primal Cause, these theories operate under false pretenses, and thus can never reach the truth.


Every creation interpretation tries to make science fit into their particular creation interpretation.But this paragraph gives the false impression that the Gap theory was made up to accomodate science and because of science we have allowed it to effect our interpretation. Like they have'nt?They are accusing us of what they have done.

I have never known any Gap Theorist to deny the divinity of Jesus Christ or the existence of God, and I certianly do not and God was the cause.Some of the greatest bible teachers taught and believed the Gap Theory and they led many people to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.I'm not implying others who believe a different creation interpretation can't be good bible teachers,but I'm just saying that there have been many Christian bible teacher Gap Theorists.And if we were living from about the mid 1800's to about the 1970's when Young Earth creationism came along most bible scholars,theologians and Christians were Gap Theorists and those who reject it today would be in the minority.The Gap Theory was very popular in many Christian churches in America and Great Britian.

But on top of all of this Gap Theorists have always rejected the theory of evolution,so that there is no way Gap Theorists allowed it to influence the way we interpret the bible.We believe the evidence in the earth is looked at all wrong because of the theory of evolution and the truth has been covered up.You are trying to re-write history or just repeating made up myths about the Gap Theory and don't know enough about it to refute it.Exodus 20:16

Here is a list of Christian ministers,Gospel preachers,bible teachers,bible scholars,evangelists,etc that all believed in and taught Gap Theory Creationism. James Hall Brooks,John Nelson Darby,C.I Schofield,G.H Pember,D.L Moody,Harry A Ironside,William R Newell,Eric Sauer,A.C Gaebelein,Alva J. McClain,William Pettingil,Lowis Sperry Chafer,Donald Gray Barnhouse,E. Shuler English,Merel F. Unger,J.Vernon McGee. There are many more than this.These were all Christians,brothers in Christ.All of these men preached and taught the Gospel of Jesus Christ.J.Vernon McGee always made sure to give an altar call so that those that are lost could come to Jesus,if he was asked to give a speech? He always made sure first that he could give an altar call first.It is wrong to doubt these people's Christian walk over a creation interpretation.

The Gap theory in no way eliminates God as the primal cause.Gap Theorists teaches God was the cause and always have. The Gap Theory has been traced back long before modern science,the theory of evolution,before the age of the earth was known and before the age of the earth was such a burning issue so that there is no way we have allowed it to influence the way we interpret the bible.Arthur Custance I believe showed that there are reasons to believe it has really always been around and possibly all the way back to when Genesis was written even, but there are reasons to believe Jesus himself understood this as well as the Apostles when you read things Jesus said,and things the Apostles said in the books they wrote that reflect knowledge of the Gap Theory.As a matter of fact in the early 1800's it was revived by Thomas Chalmers and others because of the scientific discoveries that were being made,so it had been around long before modern science even got started.Thomas Chalmers DID NOT make up The Gap Theory to accomodate science,he just revived it.You're wrong if you claim Thomas Chalmers began teaching it in the early 1800's because of science,etc in order to push and promote young earth creationism and it is wrong to do so.

Even St Augustine about 500 years ago believed the first day in Genesis 1 started in verse 3 and not verse 1 or 2 of Genesis 1.We Gappers would agree. Even by reading the 1611 KJV bible it is written in a way to where the Gap Theory can be seen much more clearly,which is why many who reject the Gap Theory use these other more modern translations thinking it disproves this interpretation.Even ancient Jewish rabbi's believed and taught the Gap long before modern science. Your whole paragraph is a straw man.

The next paragraph says this :
Many Christians working in the field of scientific cosmology seek to poach godless theories from modern science and work them into a model of biblical faith. We should applaud their efforts so long as they do not “go beyond what is written” (1 Corinthians 4:6). Unfortunately, some do go too far. In their desire to harmonize the biblical account with the scientific “necessity” of old-Earth creationism, they seek to read into the Bible concepts not clearly present. Rather than using divine inspiration to inform science, they prefer to impose modern scientific insight onto the Bible—an insight, it should be observed, the original readers of the Bible would not have understood.


I have evidence that Jewish Rabbi's believed in the Gap with art work going back to 14th century so there is no way Gap Theorists allowed science to influence the way we use divine inspiration.Here is art work from Jewish Rabbi's that depict the Gap Theory interpretation. This art work is in the Sarajevo Haggadah from the 14th century which is all jewish and in this art work you'll see the Gap Theory interpretation through the art work. Since Hebrew is read left to right instead of right to left,you'll need to look at each picture from left to right. But the first thing you see is a picture depicting chaos,then the first day when God divides the light,2nd day God seperates earth and water,3rd day vegetation,4th day sun,moon and stars,5th day fishes and birds,6th day animals and man,7th day rest.So there was chaos before the first day and we Gap Theorists agree because God poured out judgment that we can see in Genesis 1:2. And it is called creation too,so there is no way we allowed science to effect our interpretation. The bible does not say anywhere in it the earth is 6000 years old.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sarajev ... Cm5DwMM%3A
Last edited by abelcainsbrother on Sat May 14, 2016 6:00 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby Audie » Mon May 09, 2016 9:00 am

"Every creation interpretation tries to make science fit into their particular creation interpretation"

Who knew?

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Re: The refutation of a refutation : Gap Theory

Postby B. W. » Mon May 09, 2016 9:46 am

Audie wrote:"Every creation interpretation tries to make science fit into their particular creation interpretation"

Who knew?


Science cannot answer how everything came into being either. So how are you not just as guilty as of making things fit your narrative?
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-
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)


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