Challenge: Make Your Case for Creationism

Discussions on creation beliefs within Christianity, and topics related to creation.
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RickD
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Re: Challenge: Make Your Case for Creationism

Postby RickD » Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:25 pm

Audacity wrote:
RickD wrote:Define "evolve".

No.

You mean, what if God didn't use reproduction?

No. I meant: if god decided to use evolution, and only evolution, as a means of populating the earth with a diversity of life? Wouldn't that work?


.

I asked you to define evolve for the sake of understanding your pov. Evolve has such a wide variety of meanings, depending on the context and the person using the term. For some, evolve simply means "to change over time". For others, on the other end of the spectrum, evolve includes change over time, but also includes molecules to man. And evolve can mean something in between.

And to your next question, if God decided to use evolution and only evolution...., wouldn't that work?

I suppose it would work, if God decided to do it that way. But the evidence we see in the world around us, would be different if that were the case. So, unless you're making a point, it really doesn't matter what God could have done.
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Re: Challenge: Make Your Case for Creationism

Postby abelcainsbrother » Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:35 pm

RickD wrote:As usual, ACB never misses an opportunity to hijack a thread, and turn it into a promotion of The Gap Theory. With that said, this song goes out to all you Gappers out there(probably only you ACB) :mrgreen:

Give Peace Gap a Chance

Two, one two three four
Ev'rybody's talking about
Evolutionism, Creationism, Trumpism, Clintonism, Bernieism, Cruzism
This-ism, that-ism, is-m, is-m, is-m.

All we are saying is give Gap(Theory) a chance
All we are saying is give Gap(Theory) a chance

C'mon
Ev'rybody's talking about Ministers,
Sinisters, Banisters and canisters
Bishops and Fishops and Rabbis and Pop eyes,
And bye bye, bye byes.

All we are saying is give Gap(Theory)a chance
All we are saying is give Gap(Theory) a chance

Let me tell you now
Ev'rybody's talking about
Revolution, evolution, creationism,
Macroevolution, microevolution , gishisms,
Yec's, United Nations,
Congratulations.

Give Gap(Theory) a chance!


LOL! I was just making my case for creationism like he asked,Gap creationism though. I think he'll be convinced if he can honestly and objectively remove his bias,remove the evolution influence from his mind and just look at the evidence from a different but much more believable view point than evolution. I just don't know if he can remove his bias though.It is more believable even if he does'nt yet know if the bible teaches it or not,but he can do research.I have.

He did not mention bio-diversity in his original question either. But that is easy,it is called God created male and female and created them to reproduce.Evolutionists like Richard Dawkins avoids the male and female problem in evolution because they know they both must evolve by randomness with sex organs to be able to mate to reproduce.They have no real answer,but God's word does. God created sex.
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2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Challenge: Make Your Case for Creationism

Postby Nicki » Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:22 pm

RickD wrote:Good. It's better off that you bail. You expect us to argue a creation position that implies God, with someone who doesn't believe God exists?

If you decide to believe in God first, then a following step would be to discuss why we believe He created the way we think He did.


But this site is called 'evidence for God from science', implying someone could believe in God based on the likelihood of how the world came to be. y/:]

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Re: Challenge: Make Your Case for Creationism

Postby crochet1949 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:37 pm

I'm going to interject a comment. Is God the Almighty, all - powerful Creator or isn't He. Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." He created Man / Adam and then Eve. There are many Kinds of birds / but they are Birds, not horses or insects. There are Lots of varieties of dogs, but they are all Dogs. There is no way a dog can ever become a cat or elephant. An animal Has to mate with one of it's kind or it won't reproduce. Every creature / person lives one generation at a time. So, yes, God DID create -- man was made Special. And, the creation took only 7 / 24 hr. days.

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Re: Challenge: Make Your Case for Creationism

Postby RickD » Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:58 pm

And, the creation took only 7 / 24 hr. days.


Really? I thought it was 6 days. Didn't God rest on the 7th day? :poke:


Here's how the story went...

On the 6th day, God created Eve from Adam's rib. Then God stepped back, realized what He did, and literally put Himself in a timeout for the 7th day. He only said He rested, so He wouldn't come across as sexist.

On the 8th day, God fixed his mistake, and created the kitchen for Eve to be banished to.
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Audie wrote:
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Re: Challenge: Make Your Case for Creationism

Postby Byblos » Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:17 pm

Audacity wrote:I'm looking for the most convincing case you can make for the truth of creationism. If evidence is what matters to you then by all means present your evidence.


First define evolution, then define evidence.
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Re: Challenge: Make Your Case for Creationism

Postby crochet1949 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:56 pm

RickD. -- okay -- it Was 6 days / but they were 24-days Yes, He Did rest on the 7th day as an example to Us to do the Same. Ha Ha Ha regarding the kitchen 'thing'.

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Re: Challenge: Make Your Case for Creationism

Postby crochet1949 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:57 pm

RickD. A correction -- 24 - Hr. days.

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Re: Challenge: Make Your Case for Creationism

Postby Kurieuo » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:11 pm

Audacity wrote:Without alluding to evolution . . . . . . .in any way.

But, everyone believes in evolution. Yes, even YECs.
What's the point of this game? y:-/
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Re: Challenge: Make Your Case for Creationism

Postby RickD » Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:07 pm

crochet1949 wrote:RickD. -- okay -- it Was 6 days / but they were 24-days Yes, He Did rest on the 7th day as an example to Us to do the Same. Ha Ha Ha regarding the kitchen 'thing'.

I'm just teasing. I really don't want to get in a discussion of why young earth creationism is wrong. But since you're in the forums on an old earth website, I'm sure you're familiar with the discussions.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Challenge: Make Your Case for Creationism

Postby abelcainsbrother » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:53 pm

crochet1949 wrote:I'm going to interject a comment. Is God the Almighty, all - powerful Creator or isn't He. Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." He created Man / Adam and then Eve. There are many Kinds of birds / but they are Birds, not horses or insects. There are Lots of varieties of dogs, but they are all Dogs. There is no way a dog can ever become a cat or elephant. An animal Has to mate with one of it's kind or it won't reproduce. Every creature / person lives one generation at a time. So, yes, God DID create -- man was made Special. And, the creation took only 7 / 24 hr. days.


I'm going to try to show you something that I overlooked for years because of the teachings from YEC's and you can see what you think about it.All I ask is you let God be true and every man a liar and be willing to change your mind/repent if God reveals something new to you and it is this the bible tells us God MADE it in 6/24 hr.days. He did not create it in 6 days.

For years I did not known the difference between create and made but there is a difference even though they have a similar meaning.anywhere you see the word created in the OT it always means God created it new,it had never been created before and is new,however when you see the word made it is always something God had already created before or had done before and it is never something new.The bible tells us God both created things and made things and it is very important to know the difference between created and made as you read the OT.

Knowing this as you read Genesis 1 and the whole OT will help you to understand the bible differently. Here are a few scriptures to read,study, pray about and consider to learn what I'm telling you.I recomend you read several different translations too,not just one and you need a Hebrew/Greek concordance. If you are wanting to look into it on-line? Biblehub.com is a good one because you can read many different translations and also check the Hebrew too.Look at the Hebrew words translated create,made or done.

Some newer translations will sometimes use the word done instead of made and yet it is the same Hebrew word. It is deceptive to me,and I don't prefer it but I suppose it might make it easier to read as far as translation into english but you need to be aware of it.
Exodus 20:11. Genesis 2:1-4

And God created man in his image - male and female.Other than that I agree with everything else you said.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Challenge: Make Your Case for Creationism

Postby crochet1949 » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:59 am

I just looked up create / made. Yes, a difference. Create is 'out of nothing' / made is 'using already available material'.

If God Made - then those materials come From a source possibly other than God.

If God Created -- then that which He Created came From Him.

So -- yes, God DID create the materials He needed to Make everything that He did indeed did create.

Yes, God's Word is Truth -- Genesis 1:1 'in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" and then He proceeded to tell How He did it. God is the Only One with the power to Create everything He needs.

I see nothing to change my belief about / repent Of.

Other than the Fact that we Can See this world and everything in it -- there's no Need / Reason for it to be here at all. It's a purely God thing.

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Re: Challenge: Make Your Case for Creationism

Postby abelcainsbrother » Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:30 am

crochet1949 wrote:I just looked up create / made. Yes, a difference. Create is 'out of nothing' / made is 'using already available material'.

If God Made - then those materials come From a source possibly other than God.

If God Created -- then that which He Created came From Him.

So -- yes, God DID create the materials He needed to Make everything that He did indeed did create.

Yes, God's Word is Truth -- Genesis 1:1 'in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" and then He proceeded to tell How He did it. God is the Only One with the power to Create everything He needs.

I see nothing to change my belief about / repent Of.

Other than the Fact that we Can See this world and everything in it -- there's no Need / Reason for it to be here at all. It's a purely God thing.


But in Genesis 1 God created some things and made some things.I think you need to look into it more but it is up to you. Like for instance it tells us God MADE the stars on day four,this means they were not new,or as you said they were not created out of nothing although I don't prefer to teach it like that because the important thing is whether or not it was created new or not as you read but the stars had already been created before and God worked on them. Also Exodus 20:11 it tells you God MADE the heavens and earth in 6 days,this means they were not new,had already been created before and God worked on it. Also Genesis 2:1-4 stresses to you to know the difference between created and made it is also tells you God made it just like Exodus 20:11 says.

It is important to know that God created somethings and made other things as you read Genesis 1 because God made certian life that was not new life,it had already been created before or done before and it is not new,they were not created out of nothing,was made out of previously existing/created material however certian life was created and it was new life that had never been created before,was created out of nothing,or was not created out of previously existing/created material,it was new kinds of life. It is very important to know God had already created certian life before and he made it again in Genesis 1.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Challenge: Make Your Case for Creationism

Postby crochet1949 » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:03 am

God Created the world and everything in it, It didn't just come about by some random interactions of minerals / gasses , etc. Everything we have has come from God -- not some happenstance happening. that is what He wants us to recognize. Then He also chose to Make things out of what He'd already created.

Who or what would have previously created anything?

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Re: Challenge: Make Your Case for Creationism

Postby Philip » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:34 am

Who or what would have previously created anything?


Well, as much as non-theists love to use the term "Flying Spaghetti Monster" - either or some god or God created all we see - or their beloved FSM MUST actually exist. WHOMEVER created, he's created only one planet (that we know for sure) that has intelligent life on it. And of all the millions of species created, the result has been only ONE creature with higher intelligence and spiritual thinking. Do you create the ultimate environment for the most incredible of your creatures, his ability to talk, communicate, listen and understand, and yet you don't communicate with him? Any known holy books of communications and prophets sent by the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

Random, uncreated things - given enough time - don't create and design themselves, their capabilities, and they don't gain in progressive intelligence, don't all perfectly adhere to specific laws of the universe and earth - as who created such consistency? How does randomness 1) create itself? 2) Self organize 3) Acquire, see the need for intelligence, retain and use it? These are all things we only see with secondary things, in secondary processes, springing from a thing or things that preceded it. That is true for ALL things. Does anyone truly understand what the word "random" even means? RANDOM things behave randomly! But from the very first moments of the universe, that is not what we see happened.


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