RickD,you seem to be saying dogmatic things.
You assume the worst in YECs and accuse me of creating straw men! You treat me as ignorant when I have been looking at the topic for 40 years where I have a higher degree in the sciences
You did post straw man arguments. You conflated a belief of millions of years, with belief in evolution. When not all of us who believe in millions of years, believe in evolution.
You conflated a belief in evolution, with naturalism. When not all who believe in evolution believe in naturalism. You made up false arguments(straw man) and argued against the false arguments, instead of arguing against what people here actually believe. And that's either out of ignorance on your part, or dishonesty.
Why are you so against me?
I'm not against you. I'm tired of YECs misrepresenting what others believe, and then arguing against that misrepresentation.
I make my points from 40 years of experience. Even at one time I was an OEC. Could it be that you are blind to the bias because you recently left YEC? You feel betrayed by YEC? Possibly you have not looked at it as objectively as you should have.
Your experience is irrelevant when your arguments are misrepresentations.
Either you argue against what people actually believe, or stop arguing. Misrepresenting others will not be tolerated here. Period.
I do think God is very capable to make the first three days in three 24 hour days, with or without the sun. The fact that the writer talks about day and night seems to me to emphasize the point of 24 hour days.
So, there's day and night without the very thing that causes day and night on the earth?
The day and night are used to show it was a 24 hour time period. Why would the writer use day(morning) and night if he meant it figuratively?
One reason would be to show a beginning and ending of the creation day. However long the day was.
I would say the sun was made on the fourth day but it could have been the first.
You sure about that? Does your "literal" reading of scripture allow that?
Why do you have to treat me with condensation? Can you treat me with respect as a person with my own perspective and not some mindless programmed YEC. This attitude was what I was referring to in my original post. The OEC picks up the same condensation that the evolutionist has for YEC - that we are ignorant and mindless concerning science and your case think I am ignorant of scripture.
The question was straightforward with no condescension intended. I don't assume you are ignorant of scripture. I can only respond to what you post. Please stop misrepresenting beliefs of those who you disagree with. A literal, concrete reading of scripture says that the sun was created on the 4th day. I was merely asking if you would allow for a less concrete interpretation, which would allow for the sun being created on or before the first day.
I'll ask you the same question I asked crochet:
Read Genesis 2:4:
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven.
Taken literally and concretely, as you take the other parts of Genesis, according to this verse, how long did it take for God to create heaven and earth?
We read the bible like any other book - the literal parts should be taken literally and the figurative parts figuratively! Now this is the transition verse that moves from the 7 days of creation to the story of man and the fall. We sometimes speak like this, "I remember the day when I was the quarterback making all the touch downs!" In both cases, are they taking about a specific day or a group of days in general? I again point out the emphasis on the day being 24 hours by referencing the "morning and evening".
So who decides that when there's a morning and evening, yom means a 24 hour day? And when there's no morning and evening, yom means something else?
Are you the final authority? Day means ordinary day doesn't it?