Do YECs accept "ordinary days"?

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abelcainsbrother
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Re: Do YECs accept "ordinary days"?

Postby abelcainsbrother » Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:19 am

RickD wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:
RickD wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:Just off the top of my head here are some of the names of popular Christians who accept the Gap Theory. J Vernon McGee,Perry Stone,Les Feldick,John Hagee,C H Spurgeon,G.H Pember,Jack Van Impe,Charles Caps,T.D.Jakes.

Seeing that list, no wonder I'm not a gap theorist! :shock:


That's fine but they are out there.

Yes. Some on that list are waaaaaay out there! :ewink: :lol:

ACB,
Not sure why you didn't mention Benny Hinn. He believes in the Gap theory.

He'd be a great spokesman for the Gap theory! :pound:
https://hewhohasearslethimhear.wordpress.com/2010/08/06/benny-hinn-teaches-the-gap-theory/

Sorry ACB,

But you started the list. y>:D<


I knew I was taking a risk by giving names and I was trying to think popular.If I just named a bunch of people nobody knows about then nobody would know who they are.It still matters what God's word says over anybody else.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Do YECs accept "ordinary days"?

Postby RickD » Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:35 am

abelcainsbrother wrote:
RickD wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:
RickD wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:Just off the top of my head here are some of the names of popular Christians who accept the Gap Theory. J Vernon McGee,Perry Stone,Les Feldick,John Hagee,C H Spurgeon,G.H Pember,Jack Van Impe,Charles Caps,T.D.Jakes.

Seeing that list, no wonder I'm not a gap theorist! :shock:


That's fine but they are out there.

Yes. Some on that list are waaaaaay out there! :ewink: :lol:

ACB,
Not sure why you didn't mention Benny Hinn. He believes in the Gap theory.

He'd be a great spokesman for the Gap theory! :pound:
https://hewhohasearslethimhear.wordpress.com/2010/08/06/benny-hinn-teaches-the-gap-theory/

Sorry ACB,

But you started the list. y>:D<


I knew I was taking a risk by giving names and I was trying to think popular.If I just named a bunch of people nobody knows about then nobody would know who they are.It still matters what God's word says over anybody else.

Of course. Nobody here will disagree that God's word says. But we all have differing interpretations of what God's word says. What becomes dangerous, is when we equate our interpretation with scripture itself.

And, I was half joking about who's on the list. We shouldn't argue against something, just because of who believes in it. That wouldn't be arguing against the topic itself.

But, with the list you provided, with the addition of Benny Hinn, I think we all should really think about how they came to believe in the Gap theory. For example, Benny Hinn is a well known scripture twister. Simply, he preaches Heresy. There's no way to sugar coat it. So, if he twists scripture on much of what he preaches, one could logically conclude that he also wrongly interprets scripture, regarding the Gap theory.

At least it should make us think.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

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Re: Do YECs accept "ordinary days"?

Postby abelcainsbrother » Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:56 am

RickD I read through the link you posted about the refutation of the Gap Theory and all I can say is I wish I could debate him in front of a large group of Christians. He is slandering Gap Theorists claiming they accept evolution,which is a lie.No Gap Theorist I've ever heard accepted evolution,yet he is making up lies and it is wrong. But he also leaves out 2nd Peter 3:5-7 and why it cannot be talking about Noah's flood and no matter what translation a person uses too. Anyway he is just another YEC making up lies to defend YEC. He does not know the difference between "created" and " made" either and thinks they mean the same thing.2nd Peter 3:5-6 refutes him even if he does not read a KJV unless he is going to try to say the earth was formed out of water in Noah's flood,which he cannot biblically say because it did not happen,it still points us to Genesis 1 no matter the translation.I've learned how to defend the Gap using any translation because not everybody reads a KJV where it is easier to understand the Gap Theory the KJV translators were Gap Theorists,so now I can use most any of the newer translations. Read the NIV 2nd Peter 3:5-6 and it is still pointing us to Genesis 1 and not Noah's flood.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Do YECs accept "ordinary days"?

Postby RickD » Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:20 am

abelcainsbrother wrote:RickD I read through the link you posted about the refutation of the Gap Theory and all I can say is I wish I could debate him in front of a large group of Christians. He is slandering Gap Theorists claiming they accept evolution,which is a lie.No Gap Theorist I've ever heard accepted evolution,yet he is making up lies and it is wrong. But he also leaves out 2nd Peter 3:5-7 and why it cannot be talking about Noah's flood and no matter what translation a person uses too. Anyway he is just another YEC making up lies to defend YEC. He does not know the difference between "created" and " made" either and thinks they mean the same thing.2nd Peter 3:5-6 refutes him even if he does not read a KJV unless he is going to try to say the earth was formed out of water in Noah's flood,which he cannot biblically say because it did not happen,it still points us to Genesis 1 no matter the translation.I've learned how to defend the Gap using any translation because not everybody reads a KJV where it is easier to understand the Gap Theory the KJV translators were Gap Theorists,so now I can use most any of the newer translations. Read the NIV 2nd Peter 3:5-6 and it is still pointing us to Genesis 1 and not Noah's flood.

Sorry ACB.

I didn't even read the article in the blog. I didn't post the link because of the refutation of the gap theory, that the author posted. I was only posting the link to the blog, because it had the video in it. I just wanted to tease you about Benny Hinn. :oops:
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Do YECs accept "ordinary days"?

Postby abelcainsbrother » Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:00 pm

RickD wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:RickD I read through the link you posted about the refutation of the Gap Theory and all I can say is I wish I could debate him in front of a large group of Christians. He is slandering Gap Theorists claiming they accept evolution,which is a lie.No Gap Theorist I've ever heard accepted evolution,yet he is making up lies and it is wrong. But he also leaves out 2nd Peter 3:5-7 and why it cannot be talking about Noah's flood and no matter what translation a person uses too. Anyway he is just another YEC making up lies to defend YEC. He does not know the difference between "created" and " made" either and thinks they mean the same thing.2nd Peter 3:5-6 refutes him even if he does not read a KJV unless he is going to try to say the earth was formed out of water in Noah's flood,which he cannot biblically say because it did not happen,it still points us to Genesis 1 no matter the translation.I've learned how to defend the Gap using any translation because not everybody reads a KJV where it is easier to understand the Gap Theory the KJV translators were Gap Theorists,so now I can use most any of the newer translations. Read the NIV 2nd Peter 3:5-6 and it is still pointing us to Genesis 1 and not Noah's flood.

Sorry ACB.

I didn't even read the article in the blog. I didn't post the link because of the refutation of the gap theory, that the author posted. I was only posting the link to the blog, because it had the video in it. I just wanted to tease you about Benny Hinn. :oops:


OK then I'll go along with it and say this that before I ever knew about the Gap Theory I first heard Benny Hinn mention Lucifer's flood and at first I did not believe it and thought it was some wacky teaching,but I always like to try to make sure first. So I started looking for things on line about Lucifer's flood,however there is not much info out there about Lucifer's flood. Benny Hinn did not mention the Gap Theory but was teaching about angels actually,where they came from,etc and he got into Lucifer's flood,it took me awhile but somehow I later discovered a few web-sights that taught the Gap Theory so I then finally realized what Lucifer's flood was about. But it did actually start from listening to Benny Hinn teach about angels on TBN years ago.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Do YECs accept "ordinary days"?

Postby zacchaeus » Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:34 pm

Acb I'm not the one acting like I have definitive proof, nor that my 'theory' is an absolute... Call the kettle black if you want, you do not come to the 'gap theory' as your conclusion in the plane reading of the text.

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Re: Do YECs accept "ordinary days"?

Postby zacchaeus » Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:39 pm

Furthermore if the 'days' are representative of extremely long periods of time, wouldn't we draw the conclusions that the events listed each day as long processes? Ie: gardening plants, growing fruits, vegetables? If there was no time to tell time, how long were they eating of the tree, how long was God walking in the garden, how long were they hiding?

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Re: Do YECs accept "ordinary days"?

Postby zacchaeus » Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:40 pm

Acb claims to answer my questions with Scripture, actually you've answered no questions that I recalled but asked more questions.

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Re: Do YECs accept "ordinary days"?

Postby RickD » Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:36 pm

zacchaeus wrote:Furthermore if the 'days' are representative of extremely long periods of time, wouldn't we draw the conclusions that the events listed each day as long processes? Ie: gardening plants, growing fruits, vegetables? If there was no time to tell time, how long were they eating of the tree, how long was God walking in the garden, how long were they hiding?

I'm not sure if I understand what you're asking. Of course there was time. Time came into existence when the universe was created.

But as to some of the things that happened in the creation days, plants growing, Adam naming animals, Adam declaring, "at long last" when Eve was created, they all point to days longer than 24 hours.
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Re: Do YECs accept "ordinary days"?

Postby abelcainsbrother » Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:45 pm

zacchaeus wrote:Acb claims to answer my questions with Scripture, actually you've answered no questions that I recalled but asked more questions.


I actually have done both gave scripture to back up this interpretation and asked you questions.I'm not wanting to be rude to you because I'm just not rude but I honestly think that you believe young earth creationism is true,yet don't yet know how to make a case for it biblically yet.I'm not implying or saying you don't have any bible knowledge because I can tell you do by some of the questions and points you bring up,but it seems you don't yet know why it is true biblically,but just trust that it is. But you also do not know about other interpretations enough to try to explain why YEC is right and the othrs are wrong.You seem to just trust YEC more than the others and there is nothing wrong with it but I think it would be better for you to actually take the time to understand other creation interpretations.There are plenty of people here that can help you and if you have questions about the Gap Theory I can help you about it.I like these kinds of discussions and I learn new things from it.I believe the Gap theory is not only true biblically but has the best answers and understanding also especially if we get into science,but first you would have to be convinced it is correct biblically first.I would change my mind quick if I thought it was wrong,but it is'nt from my bible study and research.

I get the feeling that you think I'm declaring I have definitive proof just because I use both scripture and even science to back it up but that is what I'm supposed to do because I believe it and if you do reject it,it won't be because I did'nt back it up biblically but it really seems to me that if I did have definitive proof you'd still choose YEC.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Do YECs accept "ordinary days"?

Postby RickD » Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:56 pm

Zacchaeus,

Don't listen to ACB. He came about a belief in the Gap Theory, because of listening to Benny Hinn. :poke:

As long as you didn't come to your YEC beliefs from listening to Kenneth Copeland, it's all good. :pound:
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


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Re: Do YECs accept "ordinary days"?

Postby zacchaeus » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:15 pm

Acb, its simple... Not a popularity contest, not going with majority. I simply read scripture, then when questioned by myself, pastor, and others was when I was curious of the Hebrew, and so I've studied it- my conclusions draw 24hr days with the possibility He created everything at once.

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Re: Do YECs accept "ordinary days"?

Postby Kurieuo » Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:21 pm

zacchaeus wrote:It isnt really a thought process too difficult to suppose that God created water before He created springs and waterfalls, that He created electrons before He created sources of electricity, and that He created photons before He created light sources. If He had created the Sun before He created photons, what would it have emitted? Creating a light source before He created light would be more paradoxical than the reverse. I get my water out of a faucet in the kitchen, but I don't consider it some bizarre paradox that water existed before kitchen faucets were invented, or light before the bulb, or light switch in my kitchen, or electricity.

I believe this may have been in response to me?
Interesting, and I think it's what Jac was also trying to highlight in the Sun not being necessary for light.
BUT, the question still remains: which day did God separate light from darkness: Day 1 (Gen 1:4), or Day 4 (Gen 1:18)?

For what it's worth, strictly speaking, I'm neither 24-hour nor Day-Age when it comes to yom. I disagree with many modern YEC or OEC interpretations which specifically try to make time the focus of the writings when it is very unlikely the writer cared much at all about time.

Rather, I think day should just be understood as being all that we generally experience a day to be -- to be an ordinary day, dawn of morning, Sun out in the day and then dusk. And indeed, the "evening and morning" language in Genesis 1 supports this. This is for all days: days 1 through to day 6 -- not just days 4 to day 6 when most YECs interpret the Sun as existing.

So then, a YEC can opt for Sun being created in the beginning, and Day 4 a recap plus Earth's atmosphere transforming from translucent (thick) to transparent (thin) allowing the stars in the sky to be seen, and the Sun being revealed as something more than the displaced light we see on a very cloudy or overcast day. Such a position is much stronger than a YEC position which says the Sun was created on Day 4.

Or, one can see the significance for Moses is in the 6-1 structure and Sabbatical theology -- the Sabbath, which was a holy seventh day set aside to pay respect to the Lord God as creator of the heavens and the Earth. (Exodus 20:11) The Sabbath, a symbol of God's rest which God only allows some people to enter. (cf. Gen 2:3 and Psalm 95:11) The Sabbath, a foreshadowing of our being freed from our works when entering into God's rest. (Hebrews 4:9-11) The Sabbath, the kernel of which probably encapsulates more theology in Scripture than any other word or idea, for it includes creation, God, the Law and works, Grace and forgiveness, the Christ, soteriology and the like. Ultimately, the Sabbath represents acknowledgement and respect for God as the Creator of all above whom there is none higher.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Do YECs accept "ordinary days"?

Postby zacchaeus » Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:57 pm

Kur,

Interesting...

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Re: Do YECs accept "ordinary days"?

Postby zacchaeus » Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:54 pm

It is a thought then that in the first three days, three realms were created:
1-time,
2-space or sky (from the separation of the waters)
3-earth (from the separation of land from water)

So, in the second three days, correspondingly, were created things to fill the voids of those realms:
1-sun, moon, stars by which we measure time
2-birds in the sky and fish in the sea (to delineate sea from sky)
3-animals, with the crowning achievement...humanity.


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