Thoughts on YEC

Discussions on creation beliefs within Christianity, and topics related to creation.
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abelcainsbrother
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Re: Thoughts on YEC

Postby abelcainsbrother » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:53 am

The more I learn the more I'm convinced that YEC came from a lazy way of reading the bible,but yet it is believed to be the true interpretation when they must deny evidence to believe it.It is actually choosing to believe their biblical interpretation by blind faith and faith for a Christian is not blind.I'm not trying to offend anybody but I am convinced more and more the more I learn.The Gap theory is advanced biblical study but you may not realize it until you understand it.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Thoughts on YEC

Postby Nessa » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:02 pm

What bout Ken Ham.. isn't he YEC and i wouldnt say he was lazy in researching this topic?

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abelcainsbrother
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Re: Thoughts on YEC

Postby abelcainsbrother » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:33 pm

Nessa wrote:What bout Ken Ham.. isn't he YEC and i wouldnt say he was lazy in researching this topic?


Not what I said,I said the YEC interpretation came about by lazy bible reading and study.It will be apparrent if you ever understand the gap theory which is advanced bible study.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Thoughts on YEC

Postby Nessa » Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:30 pm

to me that's basically the same thing. You said being lazy in study.

and researching includes bible reading and study

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Re: Thoughts on YEC

Postby Kurieuo » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:01 pm

JWs aren't necessarily lazy either when it comes to Scripture.
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Re: Thoughts on YEC

Postby Jac3510 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:07 am

Rick's answers were exactly right. As far as the right interpretation, just follow the giant thread between K and I on hermeneutics. I don't want to be flippant or dismissive. I'm running short on time (going to do that work thing!) and that's the best answer I can give right now. The method of interpretation is not an issue. It is THE issue. I don't hold my beliefs on interpretation in light of my views on creation. I hold my views on creation exactly and completely because of my views on interpretation.
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue

And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

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Re: Thoughts on YEC

Postby theophilus » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:13 am

RickD wrote:Frankly Theophilus, you have been warned multiple time regarding misrepresenting other people's beliefs. And my patience with this is growing thin. Please stop.

I did not say anything about what anyone else believes. All I did was explain YEC beliefs.
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Re: Thoughts on YEC

Postby Jac3510 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:37 am

theophilus wrote:
Storyteller wrote:The world was created in literal 6 days.

It was created in 6 literal days but they may not have been 24 hour days because the events connected with the Flood might have affected the speed at which the earth rotates. https://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/2012/ ... -the-days/

Most YEC believers believe that the whole universe was created during this six day period. I am in a minority among them in that I don't believe this. Here is the reason for my belief: https://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/2014/ ... -universe/

The world is made to look older than it really is.

Adam and Eve were formed as fully grown adults (weird I have never thought about their age!)

The world was made fully functional but was not intended to look any specific age. The same thing is true of Adam and Eve. If someone traveled back in time and saw Adam and Eve just after their creation but had know knowledge of their background he would assume they were older than they really are because he would assume they had been conceived, born, and grown to adulthood just as other people have.

To accurately measure the age of the world it is necessary to know how it came into existence. The scientific "evidence" that shows the earth is billions of years old is all based on the belief that it developed entirely by natural processes rather than being created by God.

Today the world looks old because it is old. https://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/2014/ ... looks-old/

Dinosaurs and man co-existed(?)

“Behold, Behemoth,
which I made as I made you;
he eats grass like an ox.
Behold, his strength in his loins,
and his power in the muscles of his belly.
He makes his tail stiff like a cedar;
the sinews of his thighs are knit together.
His bones are tubes of bronze,
his limbs like bars of iron.
“He is the first of the works of God;
let him who made him bring near his sword!
For the mountains yield food for him
where all the wild beasts play.
Under the lotus plants he lies,
in the shelter of the reeds and in the marsh.
For his shade the lotus trees cover him;
the willows of the brook surround him.
Behold, if the river is turbulent he is not frightened;
he is confident though Jordan rushes against his mouth.
Can one take him by his eyes,
or pierce his nose with a snare?
(Job 40:15-24 ESV)

What animal can you think of that fits this description? I have heard the claim made that it is a hippopotamus but this explanation is contradicted by this statement: "He makes his tail stiff like a cedar." The tail of a hippo is small and has no resemblance to a cedar tree. On the other hand we know there were dinosaurs with very big tails.

And what about the dragon legends that are found all over the world? Don't the descriptions of dragons sound like dinosaurs?

In a nutshell, what exactly is essential to YEC beliefs? And, if possible, why you believe it (or not)?

First it is the only belief that is consistent with taking the Bible literally. If you adopt another belief then you have to find a way to interpret the creation account to make it fit your belief.
There is scientific evidence that doesn't fit the belief that the world is old. You can find some of it here:

https://answersingenesis.org/evidence-f ... ung-earth/

People who believe in an old earth either ignore this evidence or try to explain it away.

This is a very dishonest post. Contrary to Theo's comments up above, this does not explain YEC beliefs. In fact, the majority of it is a commentary on OEC. I have underlined and bolded those parts that are shots at OEC rather than an explanation of YEC.

Every one of those highlighted statements should be recanted as they are, at best, misrepresentations of non-YEC views and/or attempts to poison the well. That kind of uncharitable attitude is simply inappropriate. For anyone considering the YEC/OEC/all-the-other-views debate, I would encourage you to ignore the sections of the post highlighted above.
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue

And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

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Re: Thoughts on YEC

Postby Storyteller » Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:52 am

Thanks jac!

Will take on board everything that has been posted and I wil take a look at your other thread.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Thoughts on YEC

Postby RickD » Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:57 pm

theophilus wrote:
RickD wrote:Frankly Theophilus, you have been warned multiple time regarding misrepresenting other people's beliefs. And my patience with this is growing thin. Please stop.

I did not say anything about what anyone else believes. All I did was explain YEC beliefs.

See Jac's response above. Keep in mind, Jac is YEC, and your response bothered him enough to respond.

Theophilus,

No more warnings regarding posts like this.
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Re: Thoughts on YEC

Postby RickD » Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:59 pm

Jac3510 wrote:
theophilus wrote:
Storyteller wrote:The world was created in literal 6 days.

It was created in 6 literal days but they may not have been 24 hour days because the events connected with the Flood might have affected the speed at which the earth rotates. https://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/2012/ ... -the-days/

Most YEC believers believe that the whole universe was created during this six day period. I am in a minority among them in that I don't believe this. Here is the reason for my belief: https://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/2014/ ... -universe/

The world is made to look older than it really is.

Adam and Eve were formed as fully grown adults (weird I have never thought about their age!)

The world was made fully functional but was not intended to look any specific age. The same thing is true of Adam and Eve. If someone traveled back in time and saw Adam and Eve just after their creation but had know knowledge of their background he would assume they were older than they really are because he would assume they had been conceived, born, and grown to adulthood just as other people have.

To accurately measure the age of the world it is necessary to know how it came into existence. The scientific "evidence" that shows the earth is billions of years old is all based on the belief that it developed entirely by natural processes rather than being created by God.

Today the world looks old because it is old. https://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/2014/ ... looks-old/

Dinosaurs and man co-existed(?)

“Behold, Behemoth,
which I made as I made you;
he eats grass like an ox.
Behold, his strength in his loins,
and his power in the muscles of his belly.
He makes his tail stiff like a cedar;
the sinews of his thighs are knit together.
His bones are tubes of bronze,
his limbs like bars of iron.
“He is the first of the works of God;
let him who made him bring near his sword!
For the mountains yield food for him
where all the wild beasts play.
Under the lotus plants he lies,
in the shelter of the reeds and in the marsh.
For his shade the lotus trees cover him;
the willows of the brook surround him.
Behold, if the river is turbulent he is not frightened;
he is confident though Jordan rushes against his mouth.
Can one take him by his eyes,
or pierce his nose with a snare?
(Job 40:15-24 ESV)

What animal can you think of that fits this description? I have heard the claim made that it is a hippopotamus but this explanation is contradicted by this statement: "He makes his tail stiff like a cedar." The tail of a hippo is small and has no resemblance to a cedar tree. On the other hand we know there were dinosaurs with very big tails.

And what about the dragon legends that are found all over the world? Don't the descriptions of dragons sound like dinosaurs?

In a nutshell, what exactly is essential to YEC beliefs? And, if possible, why you believe it (or not)?

First it is the only belief that is consistent with taking the Bible literally. If you adopt another belief then you have to find a way to interpret the creation account to make it fit your belief.
There is scientific evidence that doesn't fit the belief that the world is old. You can find some of it here:

https://answersingenesis.org/evidence-f ... ung-earth/

People who believe in an old earth either ignore this evidence or try to explain it away.

This is a very dishonest post. Contrary to Theo's comments up above, this does not explain YEC beliefs. In fact, the majority of it is a commentary on OEC. I have underlined and bolded those parts that are shots at OEC rather than an explanation of YEC.

Every one of those highlighted statements should be recanted as they are, at best, misrepresentations of non-YEC views and/or attempts to poison the well. That kind of uncharitable attitude is simply inappropriate. For anyone considering the YEC/OEC/all-the-other-views debate, I would encourage you to ignore the sections of the post highlighted above.

Thank you Jac.

Maybe Theophilus will see this coming from you, and realize I'm not being unfair.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Thoughts on YEC

Postby Jac3510 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:42 pm

Perhaps. I hope that he, as a fellow YEC, is more interested in truth and love than he is in "being right" and can see the importance of humility and not presuming to speak for others.

Theo, I'im insisting you lay off the rhetoric. I am informing that you have failed to understand the positions you are critiquing, and in so doing, I have concerns that you do not understand the place (and so I suggest the importance) of what we call "YEC" within the broader spectrum of interpretations and the underlying hermeneutical principles. Given that, I implore you to make less assumptions and ask more questions. You would be highly offended, and rightly so, if someone misrepresented YEC the way you are misrepresenting OEC. A word of advice: learn opposing positions so well that you can present such a thorough defense of them that proponents of that position would not know you were not "one of them." Only then can you begin to think that you have understood the position well enough to be justified in critiquing it. As it stands now, you are far below that standard. I hope and wish better for you!
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue

And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

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Re: Thoughts on YEC

Postby abelcainsbrother » Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:49 pm

Kurieuo wrote:JWs aren't necessarily lazy either when it comes to Scripture.


Not fair,JW's are not Christian if they go by JW doctrine and are not allowing the Holy Spirit to lead them into the truth.Gap Theorists are Christian and do allow their selves to be led by the Holy Spirit to the truth as a matter of fact Gap theorists will explain this the Gap theory belief of restoration is all apart of the gospel of Jesus Christ you see we are fallen and in a chaos state like the earth and heavens in Genesis 1:2 and just as God restored the earth and heavens that was in a chaos state by God through Jesus God is restoring us back to our original non-sin state and you will find God restoring things all throughout bible including Jesus healing the crippled,healing the blind,raising the dead,etc which is restoration and yet you cannot believe that God restored the earth and heavens to make this world?
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Thoughts on YEC

Postby Kurieuo » Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:08 pm

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:JWs aren't necessarily lazy either when it comes to Scripture.


Not fair,JW's are not Christian if they go by JW doctrine and are not allowing the Holy Spirit to lead them into the truth.Gap Theorists are Christian and do allow their selves to be led by the Holy Spirit to the truth as a matter of fact Gap theorists will explain this the Gap theory belief of restoration is all apart of the gospel of Jesus Christ you see we are fallen and in a chaos state like the earth and heavens in Genesis 1:2 and just as God restored the earth and heavens that was in a chaos state by God through Jesus God is restoring us back to our original non-sin state and you will find God restoring things all throughout bible including Jesus healing the crippled,healing the blind,raising the dead,etc which is restoration and yet you cannot believe that God restored the earth and heavens to make this world?

They have their own methods. The Watchtower has the authority to change words in their translation that JWs are taught to read under the guidance of The Watchtower (what an appropriate name? ;)).

JWs are very into reading their Bibles. And in my personal exchanges seem far from lazy.
It's just a shame they are spending a lot of time reading and being taught it wrong. :P
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Re: Thoughts on YEC

Postby RickD » Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:37 pm

abelcainsbrother wrote:The more I learn the more I'm convinced that YEC came from a lazy way of reading the bible,but yet it is believed to be the true interpretation when they must deny evidence to believe it.It is actually choosing to believe their biblical interpretation by blind faith and faith for a Christian is not blind.I'm not trying to offend anybody but I am convinced more and more the more I learn.The Gap theory is advanced biblical study but you may not realize it until you understand it.

ACB,

I'm not seeing YEC as a lazy way of reading the bible. An educated YEC is very careful to try to understand scripture in its intended meaning. YECs can be just as studious with scripture, as anyone else. As I said before, YECs (in general) are very careful about trying to adhere to scripture.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony


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