Young earth, old universe

Discussions on creation beliefs within Christianity, and topics related to creation.
Starhunter
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Re: Young earth, old universe

Postby Starhunter » Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:26 am

PaulSacramento wrote:No, Genesis was God telling ancient Man how it was in a way that he ( ancient man) would understand based not only on his culture understanding BUT also VS what he was being exposed to via his pagan neighbors.


That's interesting, so God was dumbing down so to speak, for ancient man to understand. There's no doubt about that.

Now all we need to know is the level of Moses' intelligence. Agree?

Was Moses a reflector of other men's thoughts and cultures in his day? Even pagan?

Or was he of a capacity that was of a much higher standard?

I don't think you are suggesting he was not of a high standard, but yet influenced by the day.

...something to think about for sure.

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Re: Young earth, old universe

Postby PaulSacramento » Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:00 am

Starhunter wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:No, Genesis was God telling ancient Man how it was in a way that he ( ancient man) would understand based not only on his culture understanding BUT also VS what he was being exposed to via his pagan neighbors.


That's interesting, so God was dumbing down so to speak, for ancient man to understand. There's no doubt about that.

Now all we need to know is the level of Moses' intelligence. Agree?

Was Moses a reflector of other men's thoughts and cultures in his day? Even pagan?

Or was he of a capacity that was of a much higher standard?

I don't think you are suggesting he was not of a high standard, but yet influenced by the day.

...something to think about for sure.



It had nothing to do with Moses ( or the writer/editors of Genesis and the rest of the Pentateuch) but the AUDIENCE.
Moses had to convey to Israel the teaching that God was sovereign and supreme over ALL creation and he did that dealing the existing pagan creation teachings that Israel had been exposed to.
Later editors and copyists had to deal with whatever was influencing Israel at the time they were doing their work ( like being under Babylonian influence for example).

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Lonewolf
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Re: Young earth, old universe

Postby Lonewolf » Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:11 pm

Was Noah's Ark and the flood story real or just an allegorical story?

How do we get Caucasian, Mongoloid and Negroid races from one race?

And could all those animals in two's and seven pairs really have been less, and subject to Darwinism in the propagation of the species?
Your outward profession of having put on Christ, has as yet to put off Plato from your heart!

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Re: Young earth, old universe

Postby PaulSacramento » Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:28 am

Lonewolf wrote:Was Noah's Ark and the flood story real or just an allegorical story?

How do we get Caucasian, Mongoloid and Negroid races from one race?

And could all those animals in two's and seven pairs really have been less, and subject to Darwinism in the propagation of the species?


There is enough evidence to conclude that a massive flood happened in the ANE ( Ancient Near east), in the Mesopotamia area.
There is also evidence from various cultures around the world that massive floods happened there as well, the issue is that the timelines to not sync consistently across the board, in other words that all happened at different times through out ancient history.

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Lonewolf
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Re: Young earth, old universe

Postby Lonewolf » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:38 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
Lonewolf wrote:Was Noah's Ark and the flood story real or just an allegorical story?

How do we get Caucasian, Mongoloid and Negroid races from one race?

And could all those animals in two's and seven pairs really have been less, and subject to Darwinism in the propagation of the species?


There is enough evidence to conclude that a massive flood happened in the ANE ( Ancient Near east), in the Mesopotamia area.
There is also evidence from various cultures around the world that massive floods happened there as well, the issue is that the timelines to not sync consistently across the board, in other words that all happened at different times through out ancient history.


Pardon my saying Paul, but the issue is much greater than the flood itself., there is a lot to explain "if" the flood is not a literal event in history as has been taught in the church!
Your outward profession of having put on Christ, has as yet to put off Plato from your heart!

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Re: Young earth, old universe

Postby PaulSacramento » Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:46 am

Lonewolf wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Lonewolf wrote:Was Noah's Ark and the flood story real or just an allegorical story?

How do we get Caucasian, Mongoloid and Negroid races from one race?

And could all those animals in two's and seven pairs really have been less, and subject to Darwinism in the propagation of the species?


There is enough evidence to conclude that a massive flood happened in the ANE ( Ancient Near east), in the Mesopotamia area.
There is also evidence from various cultures around the world that massive floods happened there as well, the issue is that the timelines to not sync consistently across the board, in other words that all happened at different times through out ancient history.


Pardon my saying Paul, but the issue is much greater than the flood itself., there is a lot to explain "if" the flood is not a literal event in history as has been taught in the church!


In regards to population of the earth, the issue isn't Adam and Eve but Noah and family IF we take the flood as being global ( the reasons are obvious).
If the flood was NOT global, then the issue goes back to can the population of the world, all over the world, have been able to come from ONLY TWO people.

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Re: Young earth, old universe

Postby theophilus » Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:14 am

PaulSacramento wrote:There is also evidence from various cultures around the world that massive floods happened there as well, the issue is that the timelines to not sync consistently across the board, in other words that all happened at different times through out ancient history.

What is the source of your information about this? None of the flood legends I have read about contain enough information to determine when they took place.

The strongest scientific evidence of a world wide flood is the fact that the fossils that resulted from that flood are found in all parts of the world.
God wants full custody of his children, not just visits on Sunday.

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Re: Young earth, old universe

Postby PaulSacramento » Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:57 am

theophilus wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:There is also evidence from various cultures around the world that massive floods happened there as well, the issue is that the timelines to not sync consistently across the board, in other words that all happened at different times through out ancient history.

What is the source of your information about this? None of the flood legends I have read about contain enough information to determine when they took place.

The strongest scientific evidence of a world wide flood is the fact that the fossils that resulted from that flood are found in all parts of the world.


Are you suggesting they ALL took place at the same time?
Here is a good place to start:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths

They Chinese great flood is a very interesting example.

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Re: Young earth, old universe

Postby theophilus » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:56 am

PaulSacramento wrote:Are you suggesting they ALL took place at the same time?
Here is a good place to start:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths

They Chinese great flood is a very interesting example.

How could so many people all over the world have myths about a worldwide flood unless such a flood actually happened?
God wants full custody of his children, not just visits on Sunday.

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Re: Young earth, old universe

Postby PaulSacramento » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:33 am

theophilus wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:Are you suggesting they ALL took place at the same time?
Here is a good place to start:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths

They Chinese great flood is a very interesting example.

How could so many people all over the world have myths about a worldwide flood unless such a flood actually happened?

Indeed and that is a great question, which leads us to the questions of when did they happen and how?
Did they happen at the same time as Noah's?
Our the accounts the same?

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Re: Young earth, old universe

Postby Philip » Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:11 pm

How do we get Caucasian, Mongoloid and Negroid races from one race?


Wrong question. Better: What did the Creator do in the genetic coding that eventually produced them?

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Re: Young earth, old universe

Postby theophilus » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:30 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
theophilus wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:Are you suggesting they ALL took place at the same time?
Here is a good place to start:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths

They Chinese great flood is a very interesting example.

How could so many people all over the world have myths about a worldwide flood unless such a flood actually happened?

Indeed and that is a great question, which leads us to the questions of when did they happen and how?
Did they happen at the same time as Noah's?
Our the accounts the same?

They are all accounts of the same event. Since most cultures lost the knowledge of writing the story was passed on orally and over time many of the details got changed but all of them agree one the fact that there was a flood and only a few people survived.
God wants full custody of his children, not just visits on Sunday.

PaulSacramento
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Re: Young earth, old universe

Postby PaulSacramento » Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:44 am

theophilus wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
theophilus wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:Are you suggesting they ALL took place at the same time?
Here is a good place to start:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths

They Chinese great flood is a very interesting example.

How could so many people all over the world have myths about a worldwide flood unless such a flood actually happened?

Indeed and that is a great question, which leads us to the questions of when did they happen and how?
Did they happen at the same time as Noah's?
Our the accounts the same?

They are all accounts of the same event. Since most cultures lost the knowledge of writing the story was passed on orally and over time many of the details got changed but all of them agree one the fact that there was a flood and only a few people survived.

Problem with that view is that they are applicable to THEIR cultures and THEIR people, not so far away land.

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Re: Young earth, old universe

Postby Audie » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:22 pm

theophilus wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:Are you suggesting they ALL took place at the same time?
Here is a good place to start:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths

They Chinese great flood is a very interesting example.

How could so many people all over the world have myths about a worldwide flood unless such a flood actually happened?

How could so many have mermaids, little people, dragons, invincible warriors,god-kings.....

I kinda think the answer is inside the human mind. What do you think?

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Re: Young earth, old universe

Postby Furstentum Liechtenstein » Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:38 pm

Audie wrote:How could so many have mermaids, little people, dragons, invincible warriors,god-kings.....I kinda think the answer is inside the human mind. What do you think?


Mermaids: sunbaked sailors with too much rum ration in their bloodstream and no women in sight...even manatees start to look good.

Little people (Scandinavian trolls): campfire stories told by inebriated men to frighten children and women.

Dragons: a catch-all term to describe any lizard.

God-kings: we are still doing this one today: Justin Bieber, Taylor Swift, ad nauseum...

FL y:-B
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

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