Hi Henry—welcome.
OhHenry wrote:We can not trust our minds to gather ALL the universe and therefor we can not base our believe in God based on our observation of the universe.
Just wondering what you make of the follow passages?
Romans 1:20—"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
Psalms 19:1-4
1 The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they display knowledge.
3 There is no speech or language
where their voice is not heard.
4 Their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.
1 Thessalonians 5:21—"Test everything. Hold on to the good."
OhHenry wrote:Faith is the believe in things unseen or maybe a better modern phrase, Faith is the believe in things NOT observed. We are saved by faith and to trust our believe in God on anything other than faith will not save us from damnation. We are saved by faith alone. We may play around with fancy thoughts but the basic truth is simply, faith.
I wouldn't perhaps just limit your definition of faith, as being a blind belief in something (i.e., belief in something not observed). I am not sure whether you really did mean to define "faith" in this way (?), but I personally have never seen it defined this way in Scripture, nor understand how it is possible for someone to trust in a belief they may not believe...
The word translated "faith" in our English NT can be synonymous for "trust." It is based upon the Greek word
pistis, which also has a much deeper meaning than to trust. This word also means what we are persuaded of, our convictions, what we hold to be true, and these things go hand-in-hand with our passions and desires. For example,
there are those whose faith is set against God, while others have their faith in God. In this italicized example, I use "faith" in a way that runs much deeper than trusting, or simply belief. It more deeply takes on a meaning as something apart of who we are—that part of us which encompasses our convictions, persuasion, desires, passions. We can be enticed, and choose to go against these these things (our faith) within us, but they are not things that we can change within ourselves at the flick of a switch because our faith is derived from who we are.
I also think it is incomplete to say that it is faith in God that saves us. Rather it is grace by which we are saved,
which is received by faith. There is a big difference. And the kind of faith that God desires is the much deeper kind I've hopefully been able to convey, not simply a faith that means to trust or believe. Trust to some extent is something we can control, that is, we can choose to trust someone or not to trust. And belief is something even Satan has. Our faith is something much deeper, it is something that grows as a part of us, and I believe it incorporates our feelings, desires and beliefs. This is the context I believe is often intended in Scripture, for example in Ephesians 2:8-9 which says,
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." Read this verse and attach all I've been saying about faith, to "faith" in this verse. It makes a lot more sense I think, especially because how I've been describing faith can't be taken as a work.
Faith in this deeper sense is not something that can be taken as a "work", but rather it is something shaped by our experiences, knowledge and life in general. Most important to gaining this faith is seeking God, and the involvement of the Holy Spirit whose role is to guide us through experiences, and provide us with knowledge and understanding which builds our faith and draws us toward God. This faith, which is a part of us, is not something that can be categorised as a "work," but rather it is more something that becomes shaped within us.
I'm not sure whether I was able to convey this deeper understanding of faith, but when I discovered it, it was like a light switched on and I finally realised in a richer sense what it meant to be saved by grace
through faith, and why having faith is not a work, not even a tiny work. One is thinking of faith wrongly if they even think it is the smallest of works. It is only after I came to understand this idea of faith, that I stopped accusing myself of whether I really did love God and so forth, even though I sinned (and knowingly sinned), even though within it disturbed me to do so, but then if really mattered to me then why did I sin? I'm sure others are familiar with this struggle, and the doubt that can arise about one's self. But we can know our faith intuitively because it is apart of who we are. And so, I no longer question my faith based on what I do, because I've come to understand that faith is something I incorrigibily know, that is, I know it in a way I cannot be mistaken because it is related to who I am.
It might seem like I'm being picky, and being a bit long-winded, which perhaps I am. But I feel that understanding more deeply what our faith really is, is just so much of a blessing to understand. So although I may have rambled on a bit, I hope I was able to convey it across meaningfully.
Kurieuo.
). What Scripture does support is one having faith and hope in things not seen (i.e., God), but this is not based on a blind trust.
Thank you again for the loving replies. I think we all agree. I think we just had different view points or perspective but when all is said, I think we agree. Faith must me first and is only based first and foremost as a gift of God that we may accept, then, we can look at and study the universe to see His glory.