Should Neanderthals be called their own species or a subspecies of Homo Sapiens?

Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
thatkidakayoungguy
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Should Neanderthals be called their own species or a subspecies of Homo Sapiens?

Post by thatkidakayoungguy »

In biology two species usually can't reproduce and have fertile offspring, but sometimes they can. It seems that for whatever reason, this happened with Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens Sapiens. However, they were rather similar to us genetically and there could've been other factors such as social norms at play to keep the amount of "interbreeding" low.
So, debate continues as to if they're a subspecies of us or a closely related species of human. This is important because it's been proven that most non sub-Saharan African DNA has some Neanderthal in it, and would God create another species of human, or should we disregard the term species for humans when it comes to reconciling theology and biology?
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/neanderthal/
Plz no bullcrap, I want serious answers.
Thank you.
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Re: Should Neanderthals be called their own species or a subspecies of Homo Sapiens?

Post by RickD »

Here's some non-bull crap that may be of help.

Reasons.org has some articles on Neanderthals, if you want to sift through them.

http://old.reasons.org/Search?q=Are+Neanderthals+human

They are in the process of transitioning from their old website to their new one, FYI.
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24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


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thatkidakayoungguy
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Re: Should Neanderthals be called their own species or a subspecies of Homo Sapiens?

Post by thatkidakayoungguy »

No one else knows?
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Re: Should Neanderthals be called their own species or a subspecies of Homo Sapiens?

Post by RickD »

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:No one else knows?
I gave you Hugh Ross! What else do you want, AnswersinGenesis?

:lol:


Fine.

Here's a search from a Christian evolution perspective.

:D
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
thatkidakayoungguy
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Re: Should Neanderthals be called their own species or a subspecies of Homo Sapiens?

Post by thatkidakayoungguy »

RickD wrote:
thatkidakayoungguy wrote:No one else knows?
I gave you Hugh Ross! What else do you want, AnswersinGenesis?

:lol:


Fine.

Here's a search from a Christian evolution perspective.

:D
Hugh and even Ken Ham is fine, but I was wanting other users opinions. Thanks for the link too.
See, what I'm saying is, since it's proved Neanders got it up with early ppl of our subspecies, but only some, and since many think, as on here, Neanders were subhuman or otherwise non human, it throws the bible into a potential loop. How would one get around it is what I was asking, n it seems they were actual humans like u and me, just not our subspecies. Or were they a diff species? Hmm, I'll look at this new link to see.
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Re: Should Neanderthals be called their own species or a subspecies of Homo Sapiens?

Post by RickD »

Hugh and even Ken Ham is fine...
Ah, some kind of comedian, eh?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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RickD
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Re: Should Neanderthals be called their own species or a subspecies of Homo Sapiens?

Post by RickD »

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:
RickD wrote:
thatkidakayoungguy wrote:No one else knows?
I gave you Hugh Ross! What else do you want, AnswersinGenesis?

:lol:


Fine.

Here's a search from a Christian evolution perspective.

:D
Hugh and even Ken Ham is fine, but I was wanting other users opinions. Thanks for the link too.
See, what I'm saying is, since it's proved Neanders got it up with early ppl of our subspecies, but only some, and since many think, as on here, Neanders were subhuman or otherwise non human, it throws the bible into a potential loop. How would one get around it is what I was asking, n it seems they were actual humans like u and me, just not our subspecies. Or were they a diff species? Hmm, I'll look at this new link to see.

I'm not sure what the issue is. If it's somehow shown that humans successfully reproduced with Neanderthals, why would that hurt the validity of scripture? What am I missing?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
thatkidakayoungguy
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Re: Should Neanderthals be called their own species or a subspecies of Homo Sapiens?

Post by thatkidakayoungguy »

RickD wrote:
thatkidakayoungguy wrote:No one else knows?
I gave you Hugh Ross! What else do you want, AnswersinGenesis?

:lol:


Fine.

Here's a search from a Christian evolution perspective.

:D
https://biologos.org/blogs/dennis-venem ... w-evidence
this link is really good, everyone on here should check it out
thatkidakayoungguy
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Re: Should Neanderthals be called their own species or a subspecies of Homo Sapiens?

Post by thatkidakayoungguy »

RickD wrote:
thatkidakayoungguy wrote:
RickD wrote:
thatkidakayoungguy wrote:No one else knows?
I gave you Hugh Ross! What else do you want, AnswersinGenesis?

:lol:


Fine.

Here's a search from a Christian evolution perspective.

:D
Hugh and even Ken Ham is fine, but I was wanting other users opinions. Thanks for the link too.
See, what I'm saying is, since it's proved Neanders got it up with early ppl of our subspecies, but only some, and since many think, as on here, Neanders were subhuman or otherwise non human, it throws the bible into a potential loop. How would one get around it is what I was asking, n it seems they were actual humans like u and me, just not our subspecies. Or were they a diff species? Hmm, I'll look at this new link to see.

I'm not sure what the issue is. If it's somehow shown that humans successfully reproduced with Neanderthals, why would that hurt the validity of scripture? What am I missing?
Because a lot of ppl, like on here, keep saying Neanderthals weren't human. It's even in the wording of your question. When ppl on here realize that we and them did have fertile kids, n still continue to think theyre not human, then one would begin to doubt how "special" we are as a creation of God's. Then one might look at non Africans as inferior which is unbiblical, in short we need to expand our useage of the word human to more than Homo Sapiens.
It's also a pet peeve of mine.
PS: imagine this-humans in heaven with us, that aren't us, but still human. So exotic and foreign, but God doesn't care. He looks at the heart of man.
thatkidakayoungguy
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Re: Should Neanderthals be called their own species or a subspecies of Homo Sapiens?

Post by thatkidakayoungguy »

https://answersingenesis.org/human-evol ... sing-link/
this is actually really well done tho its about australiopiths than humans
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Re: Should Neanderthals be called their own species or a subspecies of Homo Sapiens?

Post by RickD »

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:
RickD wrote:
thatkidakayoungguy wrote:
RickD wrote:
thatkidakayoungguy wrote:No one else knows?
I gave you Hugh Ross! What else do you want, AnswersinGenesis?

:lol:


Fine.

Here's a search from a Christian evolution perspective.

:D
Hugh and even Ken Ham is fine, but I was wanting other users opinions. Thanks for the link too.
See, what I'm saying is, since it's proved Neanders got it up with early ppl of our subspecies, but only some, and since many think, as on here, Neanders were subhuman or otherwise non human, it throws the bible into a potential loop. How would one get around it is what I was asking, n it seems they were actual humans like u and me, just not our subspecies. Or were they a diff species? Hmm, I'll look at this new link to see.

I'm not sure what the issue is. If it's somehow shown that humans successfully reproduced with Neanderthals, why would that hurt the validity of scripture? What am I missing?
Because a lot of ppl, like on here, keep saying Neanderthals weren't human. It's even in the wording of your question. When ppl on here realize that we and them did have fertile kids, n still continue to think theyre not human, then one would begin to doubt how "special" we are as a creation of God's. Then one might look at non Africans as inferior which is unbiblical, in short we need to expand our useage of the word human to more than Homo Sapiens.
It's also a pet peeve of mine.
PS: imagine this-humans in heaven with us, that aren't us, but still human. So exotic and foreign, but God doesn't care. He looks at the heart of man.
Ok. When I use the term "human", I mean modern humans. If you prefer, Homo sapiens sapiens.

Do you have proof that Homo sapiens sapiens successfully reproduced with Neanderthals, over generations?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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Re: Should Neanderthals be called their own species or a subspecies of Homo Sapiens?

Post by RickD »

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:https://answersingenesis.org/human-evol ... sing-link/
this is actually really well done tho its about australiopiths than humans
My phone won't let me read links from that site.

:(
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
thatkidakayoungguy
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Posts: 1414
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Re: Should Neanderthals be called their own species or a subspecies of Homo Sapiens?

Post by thatkidakayoungguy »

RickD wrote:
thatkidakayoungguy wrote:
RickD wrote:
thatkidakayoungguy wrote:
RickD wrote: I gave you Hugh Ross! What else do you want, AnswersinGenesis?

:lol:


Fine.

Here's a search from a Christian evolution perspective.

:D
Hugh and even Ken Ham is fine, but I was wanting other users opinions. Thanks for the link too.
See, what I'm saying is, since it's proved Neanders got it up with early ppl of our subspecies, but only some, and since many think, as on here, Neanders were subhuman or otherwise non human, it throws the bible into a potential loop. How would one get around it is what I was asking, n it seems they were actual humans like u and me, just not our subspecies. Or were they a diff species? Hmm, I'll look at this new link to see.

I'm not sure what the issue is. If it's somehow shown that humans successfully reproduced with Neanderthals, why would that hurt the validity of scripture? What am I missing?
Because a lot of ppl, like on here, keep saying Neanderthals weren't human. It's even in the wording of your question. When ppl on here realize that we and them did have fertile kids, n still continue to think theyre not human, then one would begin to doubt how "special" we are as a creation of God's. Then one might look at non Africans as inferior which is unbiblical, in short we need to expand our useage of the word human to more than Homo Sapiens.
It's also a pet peeve of mine.
PS: imagine this-humans in heaven with us, that aren't us, but still human. So exotic and foreign, but God doesn't care. He looks at the heart of man.
Ok. When I use the term "human", I mean modern humans. If you prefer, Homo sapiens sapiens.

Do you have proof that Homo sapiens sapiens successfully reproduced with Neanderthals, over generations?
Personally I dont, but others have, you can see for yourself on google. Its rather well known ppl of Eurasian ancestry have their DNA, up to 4% too.
thatkidakayoungguy
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Re: Should Neanderthals be called their own species or a subspecies of Homo Sapiens?

Post by thatkidakayoungguy »

RickD wrote:
thatkidakayoungguy wrote:https://answersingenesis.org/human-evol ... sing-link/
this is actually really well done tho its about australiopiths than humans
My phone won't let me read links from that site.

:(
I wonder why...
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Re: Should Neanderthals be called their own species or a subspecies of Homo Sapiens?

Post by RickD »

If you're right, and non-African humans have DNA of Neanderthals, and Africans don't, then it may prove that Africans are more evolved, and we white people are less human.

Kinda throws a monkey wrench in the Theory of white supremacy, doesn't it?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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