Did All Humans Come From Adam & Eve?

Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
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Re: Did All Humans Come From Adam & Eve?

Postby DBowling » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:05 am

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:The other idea takes the timespan and says there were either gaps in the biblical genealogies or the years were different, somehow making them live longer. I kinda lean to this as it seems more likely for Adam and Eve to have lived way back in the ice ages or older.

The problem with this premise is Genesis 4.
Genesis 4 is what caused me to reevaluate and eventually discard the RTB time frames regarding Adam and the Flood.
Genesis 4 describes Neolithic human civilization in Mesopotamia beginning with Cain who built a city. So the Neolithic Mesopotamian civilization described in Genesis 4 comes into direct conflict with the premise of an ice age Adam and Eve.

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Re: Did All Humans Come From Adam & Eve?

Postby Philip » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:59 am

I am loving this conversation, so much is mystery.

One huge question is, what do we consider man - I mean, if we're looking at the dates of are considered to be humans, what is the time range? Many would consider the hominids a part of humanity, leading to moderns. But my question is, how far back, are actual humans?

Wikipedia: "According to genetic and fossil evidence, archaic Homo sapiens evolved to anatomically modern humans solely in Africa, between 200,000 and 100,000 years ago, with members of one branch leaving Africa by 60,000 years ago and over time replacing earlier human populations such as Neanderthals and Homo erectus.

So, the above would indicated modern humans were established as long ago as 200,000, and as late as 100,000 years ago.

Romans and Paul appear to be only speaking of spiritual death - after all, Adam & Eve did not die after sinning - not for quite some time. But their sustenance in the Garden, God's presence and His tree of life, once removed, meant their mortal fate would also, eventually, bring physical death. If there were other men prior to Adam, then they would not have had the Tree of Life or God's sustaining them indefinitely - so, if they existed, they clearly were all living and dying, since their beginning. But the other issue is, if other men existed, did they not sin before Adam did? How could they not have? Which would mean that spiritual death was already present in that previous line of humanity.

Romans 5:12 has an interesting wording in the ESV: "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned" - notice it doesn't say death "CAME" to all men, it says it "spread" to all of them. However, it does indicate that SIN came into the world through "one" man. If there had been another long line of men before Adam, this verse would seem to indicate that either they hadn't yet sinned (a logical impossibility), because (Romans 5:12) sin would only have entered the world through Adam - thus contradicting the verse.

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Re: Did All Humans Come From Adam & Eve?

Postby DBowling » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:54 am

Philip wrote:Many would consider the hominids a part of humanity, leading to moderns. But my question is, how far back, are actual humans?

As I mention above I personally trace humanity back to the first appearance of physically modern humans (species homo sapiens sapiens) in Africa.
Primarily due to the following:
All humanity can trace their genetic origins back to mitochondrial 'eve' and Y chromosome 'adam'. All of humanity is not tied genetically to Neanderthals, Homo Erectus, or any other hominid species.
Mitochondrial eve and Y chromosome adam correspond in time and location with the first archeological remains of physically modern humans (species homo sapiens sapiens) in Africa around 150,000 to 200,000 years ago. So I am inclined to believe that the archeological and genetic evidence indicate that the Genesis 1:26-27 creation of mankind can be traced back to Africa some 150,000 to 200,000 years ago.

But the other issue is, if other men existed, did they not sin before Adam did? How could they not have? Which would mean that spiritual death was already present in that previous line of humanity.

I think Genesis 3:22 gives us a potential answer.
Genesis 3 tells us that mankind did not "know good and evil" prior to the Fall.

Romans 5:13 tells us that
"but sin is not imputed when there is no law."

So based on the two verses above.
If mankind...
- did not know "good and evil"
and if
- there was no "law" for mankind to obey or disobey prior to God establishing relationship with mankind.

Then, mankind could have engaged in all kinds of behavior that we would consider 'sinful', but until the eyes of mankind were opened to the "knowledge of good and evil" that behavior did not represent disobedience to God and therefore according to Romans 5:13 sin would not be imputed.

It is when God established personal relationship with mankind, mankind's eyes were opened to a knowledge of good and evil, and mankind acted out his 'natural instincts' in disobedience to God that sin would then be imputed to mankind.

A practical example of this principle is when infants and toddlers act out according to their 'natural instincts' prior to understanding the concepts of "good and evil".

As a child matures, "knowledge of good and evil" combined with purposeful disobedience changes the fundamental nature of acting out in accordance with their natural instincts to deliberate sinful behavior.

Some thoughts I've discussed with my dad over the last couple of years.

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Re: Did All Humans Come From Adam & Eve?

Postby thatkidakayoungguy » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:26 am

If man was made in the image of God, meaning they could choose good or evil, and the wages of sin is death, then none of them sinned and chose good. Then when Adam was made later on he chose evil and the rest got punished for something they didn't do. I would think God would put a test for the others like Adam and Eve, so why aren't they here now? This is why I think Adam and Eve were first, they were representatives of mankind and so the doctrine of original sin would make more sense if they were first.

Didn't Homo Sapiens come from Homo Heilderbergensis or however you spell it? Wouldn't that put humanity at 400000 years old?

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Re: Did All Humans Come From Adam & Eve?

Postby thatkidakayoungguy » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:33 am

DBowling wrote:
thatkidakayoungguy wrote:The other idea takes the timespan and says there were either gaps in the biblical genealogies or the years were different, somehow making them live longer. I kinda lean to this as it seems more likely for Adam and Eve to have lived way back in the ice ages or older.

The problem with this premise is Genesis 4.
Genesis 4 is what caused me to reevaluate and eventually discard the RTB time frames regarding Adam and the Flood.
Genesis 4 describes Neolithic human civilization in Mesopotamia beginning with Cain who built a city. So the Neolithic Mesopotamian civilization described in Genesis 4 comes into direct conflict with the premise of an ice age Adam and Eve.

In Christ

Unless, there were neolithic societies during the ice age. Which while we haven't found evidence beyond the 30000 year mark it wouldn't surprise me if there were some during the warmer spells of the Pleistocene.

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Re: Did All Humans Come From Adam & Eve?

Postby abelcainsbrother » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:55 am

I must say this is an interesting discussion but I see people having to really go out of their way to try to make things they percieve fit into scripture when it is unnecessary when we have the right interpretation.The Gap Theory keeps things simple and it lines up with known scientific knowledge also,which is important to me because we should not have to jump through hoops biblically to make our particular theory fit.It is better when it fits naturally from understanding a particular interpretation. I mean the Gap Theory has a Pre-Adamite race of beings before Adam and Eve, and keeps with the rest of scripture also concerning Adam and Eve and it lines up with known scientific knowledge also.

Despite how it can be so convincing with how you make the biblical case for your theory one thing that tells me whether or not if you are right or wrong is 2nd Peter 3:3-4 "Knowing this first,that there shall come in the last days scoffers,walking after their own lusts,And saying,Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep,all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." So that any creation theory that has all things going on continually as they were from the beginning of the creation is wrong.

I mean except for denying his coming this is exactly what you are trying to claim in these last days and it is because you have been influenced by naturalistic science in these last days that you insist it happened.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Did All Humans Come From Adam & Eve?

Postby Philip » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:33 pm

DB: I think Genesis 3:22 gives us a potential answer.
Genesis 3 tells us that mankind did not "know good and evil" prior to the Fall.

Romans 5:13 tells us that
"but sin is not imputed when there is no law."


But what does Romans 2:12 say? "All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. This verse says people can and do sin apart from the law."

What about the law on their hearts / their consciences?

"13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Clearly, God WILL judge those without the Law. And they are condemned - as they have rejected of God what they DO know, not what the could know if they wouldn't resist and avoid Him. Romans 1: 19: "For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,[g] in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." The all-inclusiveness of "ever since the creation of the world," the claim these heathens Paul references "are without excuse," would seem to suggest these people did know enough about God, and His basic laws put upon their hearts, and that they will be judged guilty of sin. If that is true of heathen persons without the law, who lived before Christ, why would it not be true of men who might have lived before Adam.

Does Acts 17:30 have any significance in the above issue?

"30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent."



So, it would appear that

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Re: Did All Humans Come From Adam & Eve?

Postby Philip » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:35 pm

ACB: I must say this is an interesting discussion but I see people having to really go out of their way to try to make things they percieve fit into scripture when it is unnecessary when we have the right interpretation.


Ya mean, like... aaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggggg!!! :pound:

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Re: Did All Humans Come From Adam & Eve?

Postby abelcainsbrother » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:03 pm

I really believe that the reason so many have been influenced by naturalistic science is because the church has learned how to accommodate naturalistic science,I mean the church seems to have no real answer to combat it and so it is easy to be influenced by it.I believe that the church has had the answer with how to combat it but have chosen other things over it and so it has caused a kindof If you can't beat them,join them mentality.

I really think the church has used the wrong creation theories and interpretations to combat it and it has had very little effect on it.Now I know many will disagree but the Gap Theory has never had the platform other more popular creation ideas have had and these have not had success against naturalistic science.The big three are young earth creationism,old earth creationism and Intelligent Design and people just latch on to these ideas while overlooking another.

It is easy to do,I mean you go to their web-sights,etc and it is all laid out for you with every question answered and so it is easy to just choose one.I still believe had Gap Creationism had the platform the others had alot of naturalistic science would have been forced to change,especially when it comes to evolution.

Evolution has influenced science so much and from its very beginning it was a naturalistic scientific approach to nature.The church has not been able to have success against it and so it remains a dominant theory in science.But let's just try to imagine how much science would have been forced to change had the theory of evolution had ever been defeated,just try to imagine how much of an impact it would have on science. So here we are after everything the church has used to combat it and yet its influence remains and so it is no wonder it has influenced so many people.

You may disagree but I say had Gap Creationism had the platform the other creation theories have had evolution would have been utterly destroyed a long time ago.Now you may disagree but you have no way to know,because you have never seen what happens when it is Gap Creationism vs Evolution.You have never seen how you can take the very same evidence evolutionists use but use it to prove Gap Theory is true.

If this is true like I believe it is Gap Creationism would have utterly destroyed the theory of evolution forcing science to change because nobody believes it based on the evidence and we would not have so much of its influence in science now like we do and people would understand how truthful God's word is compared to evolutionary thinking. But now creationism is in a crisis after everything the church has used against it and its influence has remained and it does not look like its influence is going to change anytime soon.

So I challenge the church and you have got nothing to lose seeing that what you now have has had no impact against naturalistic science and so I challenge you learn of the Gap Theory and give it a try against naturalistic science.You have got nothing to lose and we already know what you have tried so far has not worked,I mean think about it is like three on one against evolution and yet it is still winning, still influences science today and even you.Find the diamond in the rough amongst creation theories/interpretations and give it a try.
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Re: Did All Humans Come From Adam & Eve?

Postby Hortator » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:18 pm

you know, this question really puzzles me. During the time of Adam and Eve's life, thousands of years ago, there was evidence of similar, bipedal, hominids roaming the earth like us. But if they looked human, were they really human? I don't know.

I think Adam and Eve were definitely homo sapiens, the form of human as we exist today. But these other lifeforms that existed near that time? I really can't say. I'll have to look over this thread to see, which I should have done to begin with :lol:

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Re: Did All Humans Come From Adam & Eve?

Postby DBowling » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:29 pm

Philip wrote:
DB: I think Genesis 3:22 gives us a potential answer.
Genesis 3 tells us that mankind did not "know good and evil" prior to the Fall.

Romans 5:13 tells us that
"but sin is not imputed when there is no law."


But what does Romans 2:12 say? "All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. This verse says people can and do sin apart from the law."

What about the law on their hearts / their consciences?

Based on Genesis 3:22 I would say that the eyes of pre-Fall mankind were not open to either of the above... at least not in a spiritual sense.
I've presented my thoughts on the subject, but the question that Scripture presents is
"How does the concept of sin relate to a creature who
- does not have relationship with God
and
- does not know either good or evil

The concept of what does it mean for mankind to know neither good nor evil is significant in any discussion of pre-Fallen man, whether that includes only Adam and Eve, or whether it potentially includes descendents from other pre-Adamic humans.
Scripture does indicate that mankind's moral awareness did change significantly with the Fall in addition to his spiritual condition.

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Re: Did All Humans Come From Adam & Eve?

Postby DBowling » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:48 pm

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:If man was made in the image of God, meaning they could choose good or evil, and the wages of sin is death, then none of them sinned and chose good.

The problem with your statement above is we know from Scripture of at least two image bearers of God who did not know good and evil, pre-fallen Adam and Eve.

Didn't Homo Sapiens come from Homo Heilderbergensis or however you spell it? Wouldn't that put humanity at 400000 years old?

Some people might agree with that premise... I happen not to.
First - Homo heidelbergensis is a different species from physically modern humans (species homo sapiens sapiens).
Second - I am not convinced that species homo sapiens sapiens descended from Homo heidelbergensis.

For me it is more consistent to stick with the species that we all belong to (species homo sapiens sapiens) and our known genetic common ancestors, mitochondrial eve and Y chromosome adam.

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Re: Did All Humans Come From Adam & Eve?

Postby DBowling » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:53 pm

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:Unless, there were neolithic societies during the ice age. Which while we haven't found evidence beyond the 30000 year mark it wouldn't surprise me if there were some during the warmer spells of the Pleistocene.

Here is a question I have for you?
Through archaeology and history we have found...
- A human civilization matching the description given in Genesis 4
- In the geographical location identified in Genesis.
- In the time frame identified by Genesis.

If we have we have already found the civilization described in Genesis 4 that matches the time and location identified in Scripture, why would we go looking for it in a different time and location that is inconsistent with the time and location identified in Scripture?

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Re: Did All Humans Come From Adam & Eve?

Postby Kurieuo » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:08 pm

DBowling wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
DBowling wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:You'll have to further explain, as I'm unclear on your points being made. That is, how such (Genesis 1:26-27 related to Genesis 2-3, different narrative [though I'd say same narrative, different focus]) indicates a lineage outside of Adam and Eve.

Sure... And for this we go back again to sequence of events
I think its pretty clear that Genesis 1:26-27 refers to the creation of mankind - Let's say somewhere around 200,000 years ago in Africa.
Then if we look at Scripture (and Mesopotamian history) we can place the historical Adam in Mesopotamia somewhere around 5,500 BC. (Remember Cain's city?... the dates for the earliest known Mesopotamian cities are significant in identifying approximate dates for when Cain would have built his city... and BTW those dates are consistent with the Scriptural genealogical dates.)

So if the Genesis 1:26-27 creation of mankind (200,000 years ago)
sequentially took place some time before the appearance of Adam and Eve in Genesis 2-3 (5,500 BC)
Then by definition there were other lines of humanity present on earth at the time of Adam and Eve.

DB, are sure you can see you're not letting science guide what you find acceptable?

As I said earlier, I believe that both Special Revelation and natural revelation are truth. Therefore, I am inclined to accept an interpretation of Special Revelation that is consistent with natural revelation, and an interpretation of natural revelation that is consistent with Special Revelation.

Of course, most of us do here. Such doesn't mean we shouldn't constantly remain aware to how our readings may be prejudiced. I fear you're letting you extra-Biblical sources guide your interpretation. We all do, but such is really causing all sorts of Scriptural gymnastics here and there, to bend Scripture to a certain view. (one I see as unnecessary, science appears on our side so far as evidence for "consciousness" and a higher spirituality is concerned)

DB wrote:
K wrote:It seems then that Romans 5:12, as we take Heiser to understand it, works against how some interpret him on Genesis 1-2. That is, if one posits these human genealogies outside of Adam and Eve lived much earlier. Interestingly, I don't see Heiser ever say that such genealogies existed much, much, earlier on. So then, Heiser doesn't contradict himself necessarily in what I've read of him on this issue. God still could have created other human lineages aside from Adam and Eve (according to Heiser's views), but they must have been created also at around the same time (unless we are to believe individuals lived for over a 100,000 years). For, it wasn't until Adam sinned, that death came upon all humanity.


The part of Heiser's argument that I embrace is the Scriptural basis for the existence of humanity before and separate from the lineage of Adam.

Here's my take on Romans 5:12.
One of the implications of the story of the Fall (at least from my perspective) is that prior to the Fall humanity did not know good and evil. According to Genesis 4, after Adam and Eve disobeyed God then their "eyes were opened" and they came to understand "good and evil".

So when Romans 5:12 says that by one man sin entered the world, my understanding is that the Fall didn't just affect Adam and Eve, it affected all humanity, so that the eyes of all humanity were opened and all humanity came to understand "good and evil". And thus through the disobedience of Adam, sin entered the world of humanity.

Regarding the death mentioned in Romans 5:12, I think we have discussed that before. I do not believe the death mentioned in Romans 5:12 is a reference to physical death. I believe it is a reference to spiritual death.
Without repeating too much of our previous discussions. The necessity for a tree of life in the garden of Eden is one of multiple indicators in Scripture that man prior to the Fall was physically mortal, and the tree of life in the garden was put there as an antidote to mankind's inherent mortality. So if mankind was mortal prior to the Fall then the death that passed to all men due to the Fall was not physical death.
Also, according to Romans 5:12 the death that resulted from the Fall specifically affected humanity. This is consistent with 'spiritual death' since humans are the only creatures on the planet who experience spiritual death, as opposed to physical death which affects all living things and is not unique to humanity.

So from my perspective
Prior to the Fall, mankind did not "know good and evil"
Adam and Eve were the first two humans to enter into personal relationship with the One True God.
When Adam and Eve sinned against God...
- their eyes were opened
- they came to know good and evil
- sin entered the world
- spiritual death spread to all men

Thus the need for a Savior to redeem fallen humanity.

Did we discuss Romans 5:12 before? I don't recall that we did, not here. Perhaps elsewhere, but I discuss many things so could have forgotten your beliefs in which case I apologise.

I do recall opening a thread to unpack "death" due to sin specifically. There, I explained that "physical death" is like a sign for the real death that can happen which it was modelled upon -- "spiritual death". The real death we may suffer, is death from God, God casting us out of His kingdom and our being cut off forever. That, is true death, the DEATH which even swallows up death itself. (Rev. 20:14) Physical death, serves as a pointer, to the true death that can happen. So it's not like you can have the physical without the spiritual.

As for your own view, let me ensure that I understand you correctly. According to what you believe, humanity existed for around 193,000 years prior to Adam and Eve. They would have been committing all sorts of would-be "sin", say killing, murdering, raping, all sorts of sexual immoral stuff, stealing, hating on each other, but because they didn't know such was "sin", then they weren't really "sinning". It was therefore alright with God for humanity, who bore His image, to be doing such things for over a 100,000 years?

It wasn't until the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" was in the garden (alongside also the Tree of Life), a couple called Adam and Eve were told to simply not eat fruit from the tree. Then when they ate a piece of fruit, that is when sin entered into the world causing some sort of a "spiritual death"? Yet, all these other humans who had the 'Image of God' like Adam and Eve, lived 100,000+ years before, did whatever the heck they liked, yet sin didn't enter into the world causing any spiritual death. It sounds to me like God should have left us in our state of "sin" (in quotes, because such isn't really sin since we didn't know), and never ever brought onto the scene Adam and Eve. :P

As for "spiritualising" the death in Romans 5:12, the death that happened during Genesis, theologians generally say was "spiritual" and then "physical" followed. Most take a conjoined view of the "death" promised by God in Genesis 2:7. Understand, the words "in the day", like Heiser says of it found in Genesis 2:4, is like an idiom for what will come after -- it does not mean on the very same day.

Many respectable commentators on Genesis say of Adam and Eve when they sinned, that they lost their spiritual relationship with God and realising their nakedness and the like (thus suffering a spiritual death of sorts), and then they were also no longer protected from the effects of the physical world, the "Tree of Life" was removed from their presence allowing physical death to eventually follow. There is no room as I see it, especially with the "Tree of Life" metaphor, to limit the "death" promised of Adam and Eve (and humanity as such) to purely a spiritual death. And virtually no one does this, you might be the first I've come across. Rather it is generally a conjoined view of spiritual+physical death of humanity.

I'll leave you with Heiser's response against a view that we only have a "spiritual" death:

    MSH: There’s a lot in here that doesn’t make sense to me, and that isn’t entirely the fault of the commentator. Let’s take the first part, about “spiritual death.” I wonder whether this idea / category has any legitimacy at all. I’ve heard many preachers define death as separation of body and soul (okay with that), and then go on to talk about “spiritual death” as separation from God. It seems an odd category. Perhaps (and this depends on one’s view of whether hell and the “second death” is eternal), there is some legitimacy for the idea due to the “second death.” People are raised to judgment, and then die the “second death”. If that death is not annihilation of the body, then an eternal death would seem legitimately definable as “separation from God.” The problem, of course, with this is that, in the very same passage, Rev. 20:14, DEATH ITSELF suffers the “second death”. So you get into the logical problem of how DEATH ITSELF can still be “living” (ongoing) when it has DIED! Put another way, how can the second death be eternal if death is put to death? Paul himself says in 1 Cor 15:26 that “the last enemy to be destroyed is death.” This is, as many of you will see, an argument for the END of death (annihilation). Those on the traditional side have to come up with a way for death itself to die and yet not be dead. Not easy! I’m still chewing on this one, so I can’t say I’d cast my vote anywhere. It’s a problem. At least, though, you should all know why I’m hesitant to even accept the “spiritual death” category. I’m also glad that my answer to these replies on Romans 5:12 doesn’t depend on that question. But there’s another reason to wonder about the legitimacy of “spiritual death.”

    Now, the commenter would likely define “spiritual death” as ANY separation from God. That seems an over-reading. With respect to verses like Rom 6:23 (“the wages of sin is death”) it seems clear that sinners (anyone who sins – which is every human who is allowed to live and can, except for Jesus) are destined for separation from God in the afterlife. Incidentally, some commenters think that Rom 6:23 undermines my Rom 5:12 view – that since all of us born after Adam die and we inherited Adam’s death, that means we inherited guilt. No – it means that all who sin and are unredeemed endure this afterlife fate. Adam and Eve *sinned* and then died. They lost immortality, and therefore all their descendants did. All who descend from Adam die, but only if they sin does the *wage* of *sin* come into effect – death in the afterlife unless redeemed. The rest of humanity wasn’t guilty of what Adam did, but they would suffer something very serious because of it: death / loss of immortality. And, as I noted in the previous post, with the environment of Eden gone, they would be helpless to avoid sinning.
I'm now a little amused by the irony in my quoting Heiser to you. :P There is a great deal I disagree with him on, but then hopefully he can serve you to bring you back our way a little regarding sin and death.

Note, in Heiser's words, he too sees full effect of sin, the full wages of its, as death in the afterlife -- a more true and full spiritual death. So then, given spiritual death doesn't fully happen here on earth -- we've still got God sustaining our world, us in it, and we still retain spirituality of some sort! Therefore Heiser reasons it must be physical death which can and does happen completely, and if we're not redeemed, our sin will ultimately result in our final spiritual death.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Did All Humans Come From Adam & Eve?

Postby Philip » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:43 pm

K: We all do, but such is really causing all sorts of Scriptural gymnastics here and there, to bend Scripture to a certain view. (one I see as unnecessary, science appears on our side so far as evidence for "consciousness" and a higher spirituality is concerned)


Isn't that what Jac always said about OEC Scriptural interpretations? y:-?


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