2 Christian biologists on evolution

Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
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RickD
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Re: 2 Christian biologists on evolution

Postby RickD » Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:19 pm

Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Audacity wrote:While it's not unusual for science types, and religious types, to misstate or overstate the issues, findings, and conclusions of their respective fields of interest, it's quite unusual for scientists and theologians to do so. Thing is, she didn't say "science types," but "scientists." There is a difference.

I guess Audie would have to explain why she compared scientists to religious people, instead of theologians, if you think it makes a difference.

Audie?


I noticed that too. The error on your part is not contingent on my having to explain something.
How about taking a little responsibility for yourself?


As for "theologians" i am disinclined to think they say that there is a high level of confidence that
god is real.

All of you here ( a more reasonable group to discuss than unknown unnamed someones out there somewhere) appear to "know" ( an absolute) that there is a god.
You "prove it" with your logic and you even know for a fact which god it is.

Some go further and absolutely know, infallibly, how to interpret "god's word".

Looks endemic to me. Exceptions are invited to show their hands.


You really are precious, Audie!
y>:D<


Were you saving that bit of cleverness for whatever answer I gave?

No. it just seems the most appropriate thing to say in response to your post.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: 2 Christian biologists on evolution

Postby Audie » Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:29 pm

RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:I guess Audie would have to explain why she compared scientists to religious people, instead of theologians, if you think it makes a difference.

Audie?


I noticed that too. The error on your part is not contingent on my having to explain something.
How about taking a little responsibility for yourself?


As for "theologians" i am disinclined to think they say that there is a high level of confidence that
god is real.

All of you here ( a more reasonable group to discuss than unknown unnamed someones out there somewhere) appear to "know" ( an absolute) that there is a god.
You "prove it" with your logic and you even know for a fact which god it is.

Some go further and absolutely know, infallibly, how to interpret "god's word".

Looks endemic to me. Exceptions are invited to show their hands.


You really are precious, Audie!
y>:D<


Were you saving that bit of cleverness for whatever answer I gave?

No. it just seems the most appropriate thing to say in response to your post.


Hey, your best is your best.

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Re: 2 Christian biologists on evolution

Postby AirBetweenTheNotes » Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:15 pm

Pseudoscientists & Religious people are the same in needing something to hold onto but just work their faiths to suit themselves where as a follower of Christ should be maturing towards allowing Him to be the One in charge of their lives & taking His direction while relinquishing, not trying to hold onto the steering wheel of life white knuckling themselves deluding every bit of data that comes their ways, into supports for their faiths/sinful desires.

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Re: 2 Christian biologists on evolution

Postby hughfarey » Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:08 pm

"Go thou and teach all nations." I believe that this instruction implies a responsibility to learn some basic punctuation...

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Re: 2 Christian biologists on evolution

Postby Audie » Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:15 pm

hughfarey wrote:"Go thou and teach all nations." I believe that this instruction implies a responsibility to learn some basic punctuation...



Seriously. We'd all be doing ab great favor by not responding to any post with sentences more thsn 2 lines long, or paragraphs of more than 5. And it would be so much less painful to the eyes.

This is not grammar nazi. It is a request for some common courtesy.

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Re: 2 Christian biologists on evolution

Postby PaulSacramento » Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:18 am

Scientists make absolute statements all the time, it's just the way we talk.
An example is " Nothing in biology makes sense outside of evolution" (Paraphrasing) or "energy can neither be create destroyed" ( or any of the 3 laws of thermodynamics).

It's not a bad thing to be honest, it's simply the way we speak.

This isn't a critique per say, it's simply an observation, a statement of observed fact.


On a side note, the reason that no one bothers to refute statements such as "there are no absolutes" are quite obvious.

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Re: 2 Christian biologists on evolution

Postby hughfarey » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:20 am

PaulSacramento wrote:Scientists make absolute statements all the time, it's just the way we talk.
An example is " Nothing in biology makes sense outside of evolution" (Paraphrasing) or "energy can neither be create destroyed" ( or any of the 3 laws of thermodynamics). It's not a bad thing to be honest, it's simply the way we speak. This isn't a critique per say, it's simply an observation, a statement of observed fact.
Does this contradict your previous comment? "Yeah and the thing is, I don't like when scientists make absolute statements. If science has taught us anything, it is to NOT make absolute statements because, tomorrow, we will find evidence to the contrary." You don't like it, but it's not a bad thing, and you're not criticising it...
Yeah... OK...

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Re: 2 Christian biologists on evolution

Postby abelcainsbrother » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:48 am

I don't agree with this idea that we can't really know the truth because new discoveries will change things and it is a cop-out to me. If scientists are guided by evidence? It will not change and new discoveries will only enhance what we've already learned.But if they do get something wrong,there is nothing wrong with admitting it,instead of just glossing over the mistakes and keeping on going in the wrong direction.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: 2 Christian biologists on evolution

Postby PaulSacramento » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:27 am

hughfarey wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:Scientists make absolute statements all the time, it's just the way we talk.
An example is " Nothing in biology makes sense outside of evolution" (Paraphrasing) or "energy can neither be create destroyed" ( or any of the 3 laws of thermodynamics). It's not a bad thing to be honest, it's simply the way we speak. This isn't a critique per say, it's simply an observation, a statement of observed fact.
Does this contradict your previous comment? "Yeah and the thing is, I don't like when scientists make absolute statements. If science has taught us anything, it is to NOT make absolute statements because, tomorrow, we will find evidence to the contrary." You don't like it, but it's not a bad thing, and you're not criticising it...
Yeah... OK...


You seem confused Hugh.
Allow me to clarify:
I don't like it when scientists make absolute claims YET I understand why they do.
Better?

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Re: 2 Christian biologists on evolution

Postby Audie » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:41 am

hughfarey wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:Scientists make absolute statements all the time, it's just the way we talk.
An example is " Nothing in biology makes sense outside of evolution" (Paraphrasing) or "energy can neither be create destroyed" ( or any of the 3 laws of thermodynamics). It's not a bad thing to be honest, it's simply the way we speak. This isn't a critique per say, it's simply an observation, a statement of observed fact.
Does this contradict your previous comment? "Yeah and the thing is, I don't like when scientists make absolute statements. If science has taught us anything, it is to NOT make absolute statements because, tomorrow, we will find evidence to the contrary." You don't like it, but it's not a bad thing, and you're not criticising it...
Yeah... OK...


The way science is taught leaves a vast amount to be desired.

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Re: 2 Christian biologists on evolution

Postby hughfarey » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:39 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:You seem confused Hugh.
Allow me to clarify:
I don't like it when scientists make absolute claims YET I understand why they do.
Better?
Thanks, yes; that's much clearer. Actually I think it's a kind of short-hand most of the time. We can't be bothered to add: "as far as we know" to the end of everything we believe true, even though we are only too aware that "how far" varies considerably from 'fact' to 'fact'.

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Re: 2 Christian biologists on evolution

Postby crochet1949 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:23 pm

And, yes, a person Can know For Certain that there Is a God. And what God it Is -- The God of the Bible. Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created heaven and earth." And there was only One God who did the creating. The God / Godhead which did the creating. In the Old Testament there is evidence that some people groups worshiped 'gods' that they had made up. That's why He tells the Children of Israel in Exodus 10:1 - 2 "And God spoke all these words, saying "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me."

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Re: 2 Christian biologists on evolution

Postby abelcainsbrother » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:46 pm

I know some are not going to want to hear this,but God's word is true and somewhere along the line because of influences in our world we forgot to believe God's word. There is something big time important in God's word that got overlooked.

2nd Peter 3:5-7 "Knowing this first,that there shall come in the last days scoffers,walking after their own lusts. And saying.Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep/died all things continues as they were from the beginning of the creation. This is exactly what we hear today because of science and so we just blindly accept this,then try to make God's word fit into this line of thinking,which is wrong.

The truth is all things have not gone on continually as they were since the fathers died and from the beginning of the creation.

Peter tell us why all things have not gone on continually for billions of years or 6000 years from the beginning of the creation.

There is a gap that has been overlooked, Peter explains the gap that got overlooked when he stated.

For this they willingly are ignorant of,that by the word of God the heavens were of old,and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the WORLD that then WAS,being overflowed with water PERISHED. And since we know biblically that this world has never perished including Noah's flood,we all came from Adam and Eve,there had to have been a world that did perish that has been overlooked by the scoffers and this is why all things have not gone on continually since the beginning of the creation and explains why we think our fathers from the beginning died.

We are stuck in fulfilled bible prophecy for now.Because this is exactly what we are led to believe today in the last days and that is " since the fathers died all things continue as they were since the beginning of the creation. The good news is that we actually have evidence that a former world did indeed perish,just think of all of the fossils and don't think of them as our fathers because of evolution.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: 2 Christian biologists on evolution

Postby crochet1949 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:44 pm

abelcainsbrother wrote:I know some are not going to want to hear this,but God's word is true and somewhere along the line because of influences in our world we forgot to believe God's word. There is something big time important in God's word that got overlooked.

2nd Peter 3:5-7 "Knowing this first,that there shall come in the last days scoffers,walking after their own lusts. And saying.Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep/died all things continues as they were from the beginning of the creation. This is exactly what we hear today because of science and so we just blindly accept this,then try to make God's word fit into this line of thinking,which is wrong.

The truth is all things have not gone on continually as they were since the fathers died and from the beginning of the creation.

Peter tell us why all things have not gone on continually for billions of years or 6000 years from the beginning of the creation.

There is a gap that has been overlooked, Peter explains the gap that got overlooked when he stated.

For this they willingly are ignorant of,that by the word of God the heavens were of old,and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the WORLD that then WAS,being overflowed with water PERISHED. And since we know biblically that this world has never perished including Noah's flood,we all came from Adam and Eve,there had to have been a world that did perish that has been overlooked by the scoffers and this is why all things have not gone on continually since the beginning of the creation and explains why we think our fathers from the beginning died.

We are stuck in fulfilled bible prophecy for now.Because this is exactly what we are led to believe today in the last days and that is " since the fathers died all things continue as they were since the beginning of the creation. The good news is that we actually have evidence that a former world did indeed perish,just think of all of the fossils and don't think of them as our fathers because of evolution.



Well --we Do know that this world Did perish and it was through Noah's flood. But the Gap Theory -- was supposed to have happened between Genesis 1:1 and vs 2.

"We are stuck in fulfilled Bible prophesy for now." And, yes, the former world Did perish -- due to the flood. But I don't see how we are Stuck in Any Bible prophesy. We Are looking forward to the rapture taking place. And there Are various things that need to happen Before that takes place.

And, yes, we Have gotten away From God's Word. Higher education tends to laugh at it at least -- and at the Most -- tell us it didn't happen at All.

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Re: 2 Christian biologists on evolution

Postby abelcainsbrother » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:35 pm

crochet1949 wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:I know some are not going to want to hear this,but God's word is true and somewhere along the line because of influences in our world we forgot to believe God's word. There is something big time important in God's word that got overlooked.

2nd Peter 3:5-7 "Knowing this first,that there shall come in the last days scoffers,walking after their own lusts. And saying.Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep/died all things continues as they were from the beginning of the creation. This is exactly what we hear today because of science and so we just blindly accept this,then try to make God's word fit into this line of thinking,which is wrong.

The truth is all things have not gone on continually as they were since the fathers died and from the beginning of the creation.

Peter tell us why all things have not gone on continually for billions of years or 6000 years from the beginning of the creation.

There is a gap that has been overlooked, Peter explains the gap that got overlooked when he stated.

For this they willingly are ignorant of,that by the word of God the heavens were of old,and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the WORLD that then WAS,being overflowed with water PERISHED. And since we know biblically that this world has never perished including Noah's flood,we all came from Adam and Eve,there had to have been a world that did perish that has been overlooked by the scoffers and this is why all things have not gone on continually since the beginning of the creation and explains why we think our fathers from the beginning died.

We are stuck in fulfilled bible prophecy for now.Because this is exactly what we are led to believe today in the last days and that is " since the fathers died all things continue as they were since the beginning of the creation. The good news is that we actually have evidence that a former world did indeed perish,just think of all of the fossils and don't think of them as our fathers because of evolution.



Well --we Do know that this world Did perish and it was through Noah's flood. But the Gap Theory -- was supposed to have happened between Genesis 1:1 and vs 2.

"We are stuck in fulfilled Bible prophesy for now." And, yes, the former world Did perish -- due to the flood. But I don't see how we are Stuck in Any Bible prophesy. We Are looking forward to the rapture taking place. And there Are various things that need to happen Before that takes place.

And, yes, we Have gotten away From God's Word. Higher education tends to laugh at it at least -- and at the Most -- tell us it didn't happen at All.



Yes the gap is between Genesis 1:1 and verse Genesis 1:2 because the earth is flooded in verse 2 and this is why all things have not gone on continually since the beginning of the creation like 2nd Peter 3:3-5 teaches us. If this world had perished in Noah's flood then how are we descendants of Adam and Eve? We live in the same world as Adam and Eve and this is why we need Jesus our Savior.How can certian bible scholars claim the time before Noah's flood was a different world than this world?Because that is what they are doing when they say it was Noah's flood.

Not trying to argue,but just trying to help you understand the gap theory,even if you reject it,it's still good to understand why we indeed believe there was a gap. This is not a salvation issue but a creation issue. If you would like to discuss the gap theory further,we can there is a lot of misunderstanding about it because of hear-say.It took me awhile to understand it because of all of the false things said about it by other Christians who don't know enough about it to refute it,yet think they have. It does not effect anybody as a Christian to understand there was a gap.

The reason why I say we are stuck in bible prophecy is because of the frustration of science teaching us that " since the fathers died,all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation and the influence it has had on us, so it is a fulfilled prophecy. We are scoffed at as ignorant,etc if we don't go along with this false teaching.Everybody who understands science has been influenced it.

Science goes all the way back to the singularity billions of years ago and everything has kept on going continually since our fathers died.Peter says nope! You're ignorant of the former world that perished in water in which that world perished. Everybody has heard about Noah's flood,so it cannot be Noah's flood,instead it is Lucifer's flood that they are ignorant about. Look at all of the debating about Noah's flood. Global? Localised flooding,etc but it is Lucifer's flood that people have overlooked.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.


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