Where art thou apologetics...

[Nessa]

Has anyone else lived in a city or country where there seems to be little to no emphasis on knowing why you believe what you believe.

From my experience, the only real apologetic we have here is one of experience. Which to me seems shaky. It's just my experience against your experience. Science does not seem to counter in to it at all.

Now there are parts of NZ where apologetic seminars go on etc but it's still hard to find anyone to talk to about stuff like this. Every Church I have ever gone to has never (at least as far as I am aware) never brought up anything about having a reason beyond experience. And my experience of God isn't that great so considering I have basically no evidential based apologetic knowledge its a wonder I'm a Christian.

I hope there is a God as in "I hope its going to be sunny tomorrow" and choose to believe but it is shaky.

Is apologetics big where you live? In your Christian circles?

[Nessa]

I don't want to die and wake up.. see God..and say "Phew! there is a God"...

[Storyteller]

I`m fairly new to all of this, I have always believed in something but was never sure enough to say it was God. Coming here, reading the threads and the stuff on the homepage was instrumental in me accepting Christ. It was the scientific "proof" about God that persuaded me.

I totally get where you`re coming from with the "I don`t want to die and wake up and see God and say Phew There is a God" For me, that`s not enough, I have searched for God for a long, long time and I have found Him. I`ve felt Him. I absolutely know He exists. Don`t get me wrong, there are still times where the doubts creep in, I like to think that I am open to any possibility, including that God may not exist but nothing I have read, seen, heard or felt has convinced me there is no God.

Science, in particular quantum physics, to me, points to a Creator, some form of intelligent design. Our universe is too ordered, too complex, too endlessly fascinating to be down to just chance.

Genesis describes the Big Bang as far I can see.

There is still an awful lot I`m still not sure of, things like what my creation stance is but my belief and faith in God is based on scientific evidence.

Sorry, not sure if this is really on topic or if it`s just a ramble. (You`ll get used it, I ramble a lot!)

[B. W.]

Has anyone else lived in a city or country where there seems to be little to no emphasis on knowing why you believe what you believe.

From my experience, the only real apologetic we have here is one of experience. Which to me seems shaky. It's just my experience against your experience. Science does not seem to counter in to it at all.

Now there are parts of NZ where apologetic seminars go on etc but it's still hard to find anyone to talk to about stuff like this. Every Church I have ever gone to has never (at least as far as I am aware) never brought up anything about having a reason beyond experience. And my experience of God isn't that great so considering I have basically no evidential based apologetic knowledge its a wonder I'm a Christian.

I hope there is a God as in "I hope its going to be sunny tomorrow" and choose to believe but it is shaky.

Is apologetics big where you live? In your Christian circles?

You bring up a very excellent point that sadly reveals the truth about the modern western church - they gave up teaching apologetic's long ago in youth and adult bible study classes and from the pulpit. Why and how this came about in my opinion appears to have come due to ignorance and laziness.

Here is an article from CARM that helps shed some light on the ignorance and laziness mentioned:

https://carm.org/apologetics-in-church

Another From William Lane Craig:

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/christia ... o-needs-it


In my opinion, I add to the articles above that ignorance came by ignoring the teaching on the meaning of names, Hebrew Otiot/Letters and number meanings used within the bible as well as a rejection of symbolism of objects and meaning of colors mentioned in the bible. If applied to youth early on, these alone would point to the divine finger print of God within the pages of the bible in an undeniable fashion. This, in my opinion came about due to fear of Jews and any reference to the Jesus being a Jew within the church that crept in around the early middle ages. So the philosophic system of the western tradition crept in as the sole manner to explore biblical truths. So you have the Greeks seeking after wisdom and the Jewish thought seeking after signs in opposition to each other with Christian's ignoring how the blending of the two would make believers in Christ Jesus one new man.

This tension exist today. Results - well - speak for itself...
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[1over137]

They are on the internet. E.g http://www.bethinking.org

[Nessa]

I`m fairly new to all of this, I have always believed in something but was never sure enough to say it was God. Coming here, reading the threads and the stuff on the homepage was instrumental in me accepting Christ. It was the scientific "proof" about God that persuaded me.

I totally get where you`re coming from with the "I don`t want to die and wake up and see God and say Phew There is a God" For me, that`s not enough, I have searched for God for a long, long time and I have found Him. I`ve felt Him. I absolutely know He exists. Don`t get me wrong, there are still times where the doubts creep in, I like to think that I am open to any possibility, including that God may not exist but nothing I have read, seen, heard or felt has convinced me there is no God.

Science, in particular quantum physics, to me, points to a Creator, some form of intelligent design. Our universe is too ordered, too complex, too endlessly fascinating to be down to just chance.

Genesis describes the Big Bang as far I can see.

There is still an awful lot I`m still not sure of, things like what my creation stance is but my belief and faith in God is based on scientific evidence.

Sorry, not sure if this is really on topic or if it`s just a ramble. (You`ll get used it, I ramble a lot!)

that actually helps alot its nice to feel like someones sitting beside me giving me their take on it

[Nessa]

They are on the internet. E.g http://www.bethinking.org

thats a really great site

I think what im really saying is not only where is the info but where are the people..where are the conversions...especially in places like where I live.

It gets lonely drowning in a sea of information trying to put it altogether to make it all flow....not just some rambled thoughts all mixed up.

Maybe what im getting at is where are the mentors....the ones to help guide..to help nut things out. Yes there are courses but something personal would be good.


kinda like when the bible talks about older women training the young...paul and
timothy etc. Thats what im really getting at. Minstries that personally care that you know what you believe...not just handing out info but getting along side you etc

[Storyteller]

Know what you mean, I want a mentor. I am lucky enough to have a good friend on here that I pm a lot with, that helps. And I have found a lot of answers on this forum and through it. But you still want that one to one guidance from someone who seems to have the answers. Thing is, you and I are as lijely to have the answers as they are.

I want a church that is personal, and spiritual. Thats open to challenge, where you discuss what you believe, and why. Kinda like here.

[RickD]

Mrs. David S Stones wrote:


Maybe what im getting at is where are the mentors....the ones to help guide..to help nut things out. Yes there are courses but something personal would be good.

Maybe you should ask the sheep. Apparently, at least in 2014, sheep outnumber people in New Zealand 7 to 1!!!!
http://m.weeklytimesnow.com.au/agribusi ... 7030978642

All kidding aside, relatively speaking, there aren't really that many Christians in NZ. Best estimate is around 2 million, give or take. And of those 2 million, how many are actually nominal Christians? I'd guess a huge percentage.

If you want a larger number of Christian mentors, I suggest you try the Bible Belt.

And we Americans love a Kiwi accent! It's much better than that lousy Aussie dialect!

[1over137]

I was/am lucky enough to have several friends who kind of are mentors. But more friends than mentors.
At my Christian beginnings they helped a lot.

What I see usually, people who search for mentors, pick one older member from the church and are kind of friends. Teacher-student relationship salted with friendship.

[abelcainsbrother]

When I think of a mentor besides Jesus of course it is my Sunday school teacher from when I was a kid,because I probably learned 80% of what I know now from him from the years I was in his class.I don't know if he counts but it is who I think of when I think of a mentor and his wife is the one who actually ministered to me about Jesus and led me in the sinners prayer when I got saved.

[abelcainsbrother]

This was my favorite song to sing in his Sunday school class.

The Countdown Song.
https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=Krlp5Tan4dU

[Nessa]

cute song

well if He comes back while im defending the faith to someone ....that sure would be handy...

[bippy123]

David , I wish I had more time as I'm struggling with being homeless right now and it has humbled me a lot .

I think one if the best arguments for not only God but for the resurrection of Christ and that Christ is lord God and savior is the criterion of embarressment itself and it comes straight from the bible . It's more of a reasoned and logical argument that makes perfect common sense .

Remember that in all the gospels it was the women who saw the tomb of Christ empty first and saw the resurrected Christ first . This is a very powerful argument and testime to the sincerity of what the apostles saw and wrote down .

Remember that in first century Jerusalem a woman's testimony was considered unreliable and they weren't even allowed to testify against men in court . If the apostles were lying about what wrote down or gave to others to write down they never ever would have written to a first century audience in Jerusalem and beyond that it was the women that saw the tomb empty first and it was the women that saw the risen Christ first . Even Antony flew himself said that this argument made very good sense to him as far as the genuiness of the apostles .

This to me has always been the most powerful argument in the bible .

Wish I had more time and the net connection to pm with you , but hopefully that will change one day in the future.
God bless you and keep holding on to your faith
Bippy123

PS, I'm at carls junior and I just heard a worker say "praise Jesus that I'm not a religious person "
I was very tempted to start in on her but I held back and smiled , you guys know me

[Storyteller]

Yes, we do, and its a privilge to do so.

Praying for you bro xxx