Is secularism spreading?

[Kenny]

Honest opinion? You gals should research what Muslims think in Muslim countries.

Take Turkey’s PM Erdogan: The term “moderate Islam” is ugly and offensive — Islam is Islam
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/09/turke ... m-is-islam

Muslims living under a theocracy government will probably think differently than those living under a secular government; but that doesn't mean those living under a secular government are not real Muslims.

Ken

[Storyteller]

Certainly looks that way!

[PaulSacramento]

Ideology, religion, same schtick.

Isn't it amazing how some people don't grasp this truism?

[Audie]

Ideology, religion, same schtick.

Isn't it amazing how some people don't grasp this truism?

And both worse than the other. Even fewer grasp that one.

[PaulSacramento]

Ideology, religion, same schtick.

Isn't it amazing how some people don't grasp this truism?

And both worse than the other. Even fewer grasp that one.

I would never say one worse than the other, just that both are easily corrupted by human nature, regardless of their ideal aims.
I man, how would you begin to quantify "worse"?

[Audie]

Ideology, religion, same schtick.

Isn't it amazing how some people don't grasp this truism?

And both worse than the other. Even fewer grasp that one.

I would never say one worse than the other, just that both are easily corrupted by human nature, regardless of their ideal aims.
I man, how would you begin to quantify "worse"?

I, woman, can say it as I please, and as it is clearly not intended to be taken literally, I'm not going to do any literal analysis for you.

Do you know of a pure ideology or religion, perfect and in all ways good?

Maoism had its good points, so did Christianity.

[PaulSacramento]

Ideology, religion, same schtick.

Isn't it amazing how some people don't grasp this truism?

And both worse than the other. Even fewer grasp that one.

I would never say one worse than the other, just that both are easily corrupted by human nature, regardless of their ideal aims.
I man, how would you begin to quantify "worse"?

I, woman, can say it as I please, and as it is clearly not intended to be taken literally, I'm not going to do any literal analysis for you.

Do you know of a pure ideology or religion, perfect and in all ways good?

Maoism had its good points, so did Christianity.

As a Christian I, obviously, believe Christianity is perfect.

Of course perfect needs to be quantified and in this case: Perfect for it's intended purpose.

[Kurieuo]

Certainly looks that way!

So much for England's liberal progressiveness.
Either it's one step closer of Communism, or one step closer to an Islamic theocracy.
Time will tell where the stairs lead.

[Kurieuo]

Ideology, religion, same schtick.

Isn't it amazing how some people don't grasp this truism?

And both worse than the other. Even fewer grasp that one.

I would never say one worse than the other, just that both are easily corrupted by human nature, regardless of their ideal aims.
I man, how would you begin to quantify "worse"?

I, woman, can say it as I please, and as it is clearly not intended to be taken literally, I'm not going to do any literal analysis for you.

Do you know of a pure ideology or religion, perfect and in all ways good?

Maoism had its good points, so did Christianity.

Yeah, you like the death of only 70 million deaths due to starvation and what-not then opt for Mao and Marxism–Leninism.
I'll stick to Christ thanks. His teachings by comparison is the same as light to darkness.
And more freeing on so many levels.

[Mallz]

Your exact words were: if you stole when no one is looking, then you don't believe it is wrong. You just believe everyone else says it's wrong and need to make sure they don't find out about it.

Gotcha, thanks. Follow the points in context I was making throughout the conversation. This one has to do with trust/believing and being a hypocrite. To sum it up though: People do things that are wrong knowingly and unknowingly. It's hard to commit a sin when you don't know it is one. And someone wont' consider something a sin if they don't believe it is, because their moral principles tell them it's not even if their moral principles are wrong. People are great at deceiving themselves and others and muddying up truth/reality due to their desires. Objectively there is morality we can define naturally. No guessing needed. People want to be their own moral makers. To reality/existence/God if you are being immoral you are sinning against something in existence and God (despite what you tell yourself or how numbed and broken your conscious is). To that person, they aren't sinning. Those that know morality are going to be held to a higher standard to not be immoral (and some things are unacceptable and would make you a hypocrite if you did in regards to Christianity, or any belief system in general).

What about you? Are you sinless? Or do you not accept and believe what your religion is telling you.

You ask this again?
Again, I'm sinful, will be till I die and accept and believe what my religion is telling me. Instead of trying to goad me somewhere, just ask what is on your mind. Be a lot more direct Kenny; I'm losing interest in talking to you.

Going over a religion doesn't mean you are going to interpret it the way the other person will

What makes a person Muslim? Why don't you tell me?
Are you saying anyone can alter any belief system, claim to be a part of it, and be a representative of it? That seems to be what you're implying. And is completely ridiculous. And this seems to be a huge error people make. Accept what someone says on face value and believe they represent what they say they do.

One last time. Read the Quran and Hadith. In it, it tells you if you are a Muslim or not (and why and how). Not me, not you, not your uncle, not that monkey. How is this so hard for you to comprehend?

Oh so now you've been given the authority to determine who is Muslim and who is not?

If you would actually read my words you would have the answer to this question already. (and done a little needed research on your own)

[Mallz]

ST: Mallz?
Are you saying that only Muslim extremists are true Muslims?

Muslim extremists are living out Islam. We would have to define what you mean by only Muslim 'extremists' for me to agree to that statement.
Because there are Muslim extremists that ARE going against their prophet and allah.
Want to know why other Mulsims are so pissed at ISIS? The timing is off and they aren't following the Mahdis orders (or are they?! )
Once the Muslim Mahdi arrives, the entire Muslim world will unify and go ISIS on the world.

Great question Annette!
Was thinking the same thing.
Is that kind of thinking a little extreme?

Islam is extreme thinking. How much do you know about Islam?

[Mallz]

Kenny: Muslims living under a theocracy government will probably think differently than those living under a secular government; but that doesn't mean those living under a secular government are not real Muslims.

Their religious texts say they are not, unless they are portraying 'moderate' for subversion.

[Mallz]

And both worse than the other. Even fewer grasp that one.

And completely inescapable for humans

[Kurieuo]

Certainly looks that way!

So much for England's liberal progressiveness.
Either it's one step closer of Communism, or one step closer to an Islamic theocracy.
Time will tell where the stairs lead.

Since that was pitifully blocked by your government it seems, you can just search "Recep Tayyip Erdogan no moderate islam".

The issue as seen by "true" Muslims (by true, I mean as would be seen in Eastern legitimate terms rather than illegitimate Western terms), is that "moderate" and "extreme" Muslims are seen as Western labels.
So your moderate Muslim, is perceived by Muslims to really mean a Muslim who is more "Christian". And Allah willing, forbid any Muslim be Christian in any way, shape or form.
For such ultimately boils down to supporting the most atrocious and unforgivable sin in Islam of shirk.

[Kenny]

Gotcha, thanks. Follow the points in context I was making throughout the conversation. This one has to do with trust/believing and being a hypocrite. To sum it up though: People do things that are wrong knowingly and unknowingly.

Okay not that’s different. Before you said people do wrong unknowingly. Now that you’ve changed your position and admit some do it knowingly as well. Now we are in agreement.

You ask this again?

Yes last time you didn't answer my question.

Again, I'm sinful, will be till I die and accept and believe what my religion is telling me.

Now you admit you sin which is against your religion; yet you accept and believe what your religion is telling you. Either you’ve contradicted yourself, or you’ve changed your mind again and agree with me now. I am going to give you the benefit of doubt and assume you have changed your position and agree with me now.

Ken