Shroud of Turin

Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
bippy123
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Re: Shroud of Turin

Postby bippy123 » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:33 pm

Philip this is the key here and shows that you understand this aspect of shroud research perfectly .
To hold to the theory that it is an incredible fake using technology that even scientists today don't have takes too much blind to believe in.

Once you've eliminated all rational and reasonable naturalistic explanations your left with the answer the one answer that smacks most reasonable people in the face, the resurrection . This is exactly what convinced doctor August accetta and mark antonacci of the reality of Christ and the existence of God and these were both agnostics who tried every which way but loose to try to debunk the shroud and both ended up coming back to Christ .

I'm personally waiting for the dark horse evidence to come through , doctor Petra's sons and the holland labs research int cracking the full holographic info on the shroud . Once that happens the real fun will begin, but it seems like it's taking ages which I chatted about with my buddy dads on Facebook about .

It seems like with shroud research it goes through a lull period and then bam ,something big happens . It certainly requires lots of patience to wait out those lull periods , but really exciting when the storm hits ;)

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Re: Shroud of Turin

Postby Storyteller » Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:45 am

"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

And Christ is THE truth.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Shroud of Turin

Postby Disciplical » Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:12 pm

I wonder if Mr Holmes would would have been a Christian.

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Re: Shroud of Turin

Postby Storyteller » Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:20 pm

Disciplical wrote:I wonder if Mr Holmes would would have been a Christian.


He was into Christian Spirituality apparently. Absolutely no idea what that is though.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Shroud of Turin

Postby bippy123 » Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:44 pm

Storyteller wrote:"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

And Christ is THE truth.

That is it sister , this is exactly how we should approach the shroud . Another reason for this approach is how the heck do you test for a resurrection ??

It's obviously beyond all mankind but not for God ;)

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Re: Shroud of Turin

Postby winningedge101 » Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:00 pm

Are they doing any testing on the shroud right now to prove its authenticity? I think it would be cool if the evidence came out that it was authentic so that it would be the last chance for unbelievers to consider the resurrection before Jesus finally says, "Alright there is your proof, make a choice or be ignorant." Idk. :P

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Re: Shroud of Turin

Postby bippy123 » Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:35 am

Winning edge, I'm sure something like that will
Happen at some point down the the road . This looks like a lull period for the shroud and believe it or not it's very common as we've had them many times before during the shrouds history.

But I believe there is more then enough evidence to make anyone who had done a deep study of it to lean towards it being the shroud of our lord and savior and the most reasonable explanation that makes any sense at all is that the resurrection firmed that image .

Like I said you must approach the shroud like Sherlock Holmes approaches a murder mystery because science just can't explain how that image got there .

It's beyond even 21st century science but not beyond Gods power ;)

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Re: Shroud of Turin

Postby DRDS » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:32 pm

Hey everyone, here is a new Shroud video made by my dawg, LA Marzulli with interviews by Berrie Schwartz and Isabel Piczek.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF1RaqKrjUY

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Re: Shroud of Turin

Postby Katabole » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:23 pm

I just finished watching the vid DRDS put up.

Any word on who the names of the actual persons were, that were responsible for "cleaning" the shroud in 2003? That would be a deliberate removal of evidence and directly tampering and altering an ancient artifact and if that is the case, I wonder why?
Even if there is more testing in the future which proves that the shroud is beyond any reasonable doubt, a relic from the first century A.D, there is still no way that anyone could say that it is indeed the resurrection cloth of Jesus Christ, even though I believe that it is. Unless of course, those who "cleaned" the shroud already knew that there was some evidence that proved that it was Jesus' burial cloth and they wanted to privately and quietly remove any trace of that evidence before any future testing was initiated.
And if that is the case, which Barry Schwartz seemed to hint at in the video, I wonder what they are scared of?

If Jesus' resurrection happened (which I believe did happen), and the shroud is the physical evidence of that event, then Jesus is God, Christianity is true and all other belief systems are false. Maybe the removal of evidence was done so that that assertion never becomes a reality? y:-?

By the way, particle physicist Dame Isabel Piczek's testimony in that vid is pretty fascinating, when she claims that space and time had to stop momentarily, in order for the image to be reproduced not only on the front but also on the back of the shroud, which she describes as a Big-Bang type of singularity. Fascinating stuff.

As said above in the thread, quoting Doyle's Holmes: "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth". And I will add:

When the impossible cannot be eliminated, then the impossible is the truth.

And as the Bible says: God is light.
Well it may be the devil or it may be the Lord but you know you gotta serve somebody. Bob Dylan

Every one that is of the truth hears my voice. Jesus from John 18:37

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Re: Shroud of Turin

Postby PaulSacramento » Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:20 am

The issue to me, what really got me to believe that this is the shroud of Jesus, was the fact that the only way anyone has gotten close to duplicating the image was via radiation..
Add to that, like the gentlemen in the video stated, that the image was never an image UNTIL they invented photography, it is clear that it was not a forgery ( there is not logic to forging something that can't be seen without technology that doesn't exists yet.).
Then the question became, if NOT Jesus then WHO and if not the resurrection then what?

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Re: Shroud of Turin

Postby bippy123 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:00 am

PaulSacramento wrote:The issue to me, what really got me to believe that this is the shroud of Jesus, was the fact that the only way anyone has gotten close to duplicating the image was via radiation..
Add to that, like the gentlemen in the video stated, that the image was never an image UNTIL they invented photography, it is clear that it was not a forgery ( there is not logic to forging something that can't be seen without technology that doesn't exists yet.).
Then the question became, if NOT Jesus then WHO and if not the resurrection then what?

This is the key Paul , by inference to the best explanation it leads logically to Christ .the wounds not only fit the passion and crucifixion but they correct medieval depictions of the wound going through the palm .

Why would the forger even care to do this to fool people from medieval times?????

The radiation theory is what gives me goose bumps .
It also converted Doctor August accetta back from agnosticism.

The shroud is currently in a quiet period .
I call it the calm before the storm
Really hoping something comes out of the Holland labs with dr Petros soons.

Great video find DRDS :)
Your now worse then I am in finding them lol

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Re: Shroud of Turin

Postby bippy123 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:06 am

Katabole wrote:I just finished watching the vid DRDS put up.

Any word on who the names of the actual persons were, that were responsible for "cleaning" the shroud in 2003? That would be a deliberate removal of evidence and directly tampering and altering an ancient artifact and if that is the case, I wonder why?
Even if there is more testing in the future which proves that the shroud is beyond any reasonable doubt, a relic from the first century A.D, there is still no way that anyone could say that it is indeed the resurrection cloth of Jesus Christ, even though I believe that it is. Unless of course, those who "cleaned" the shroud already knew that there was some evidence that proved that it was Jesus' burial cloth and they wanted to privately and quietly remove any trace of that evidence before any future testing was initiated.
And if that is the case, which Barry Schwartz seemed to hint at in the video, I wonder what they are scared of?

If Jesus' resurrection happened (which I believe did happen), and the shroud is the physical evidence of that event, then Jesus is God, Christianity is true and all other belief systems are false. Maybe the removal of evidence was done so that that assertion never becomes a reality? y:-?

By the way, particle physicist Dame Isabel Piczek's testimony in that vid is pretty fascinating, when she claims that space and time had to stop momentarily, in order for the image to be reproduced not only on the front but also on the back of the shroud, which she describes as a Big-Bang type of singularity. Fascinating stuff.

As said above in the thread, quoting Doyle's Holmes: "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth". And I will add:

When the impossible cannot be eliminated, then the impossible is the truth.

And as the Bible says: God is light.


Correct katabole, to study the shroud it's not enough to look at the scientific data but you must put your PI hat on and play Sherlock Holmes as you investigate what could be a visual clue to the greatest event that ever happened .

Fun isn't it ;)
the cleaning of the shroud is very disturbing isn't it ;)

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Re: Shroud of Turin

Postby Philip » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:58 am

Bip: the cleaning of the shroud is very disturbing isn't it ;)


No doubt! But I can guarantee you that such a powerful piece of the Lord's evidence of Himself won't be erased by bumbling stooges trying to damage His evidence. It's survived fires, massive scrutiny, and Paul perfectly summed it up - if not Jesus - WHO? Yes, the microscopic things, pollens, 3-D spatial imagery - ON BOTH SIDES!!! Even IF a forger understood the spatial imagery or how to somehow transfer it to the BACK of the cloth, why would he? This is total nonsense! The incredible details, which wow experts today, were unknown when the image was originated and were totally impossible to create - and this inability to do so is true even TODAY! And so out of millions of burial shrouds from history, we have one that has, for many centuries, been considered the burial garment of Christ - and was WAY before modern scientific technology or understandings revealed just how extraordinary this cloth is, that the stains were an image, that they were a NEGATIVE image (that photographed would produce a positive one), and that they were 3-dimensional and spatial. And so, with such a powerful piece of unreplicatable evidence, so well studied, those desperate to easily dismiss it are left to disingenuously reference the same old false media stories. Because facing the collective power of the evidence, with cheap, clueless explanations, reveal how laughable the whole "clever ancient forger" theory actually is.

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Re: Shroud of Turin

Postby bippy123 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:59 pm

Philip , like I said I could never put it is such an eloquent and intelligible fashion . Your post hits at the heart of why shroud researchers are fascinated and even obsessed with studying the shroud . It's the most amazing burial cloth ever .

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Re: Shroud of Turin

Postby PaulSacramento » Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:08 am

Hey Bibby:
http://www.jerrynewcombe.com/vocal-point-gary-habermas/

Gary Habermas on the Shroud.


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