Michael Heiser & The Rock in Matthew 16:18

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Philip
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Michael Heiser & The Rock in Matthew 16:18

#1

Post by Philip » Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:34 pm

Here, Dr. Heiser questions the common interpretations of the "upon this rock" passage of Matthew 16:18 - very interesting!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo

Comments? Thoughts?

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Re: Michael Heiser & The Rock in Matthew 16:18

#2

Post by DBowling » Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:29 am

Philip wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:34 pm
Here, Dr. Heiser questions the common interpretations of the "upon this rock" passage of Matthew 16:18 - very interesting!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo

Comments? Thoughts?
Some thoughts...

As Heiser points out, I do believe that the location is extremely significant to this story.
When Jesus took his disciples to this location, it was a place of worship to the pagan god Pan.
And even more interestingly this location also contained a cave known as the "gates of hades". This cave was the source of a spring that the Greeks believed flowed from hades.

One of the interesting points to this story is that Jesus takes his disciples to the "gates of hades" and tells his disciples that the gates of hades will not prevail against the Church. In Jesus' illustration the Church is on offense, the 'gates of hades' are on defense, and Jesus' expectation is that the Church will overcome the 'gates of hades'.
Jesus' view of the Church on offense has significant implications regarding evangelization and eschatology among other things.

As for "this rock", I do believe that Jesus is deliberately making a play on words involving petros (little rock) and petra (big rock).
To the best of my knowledge this word play only works in Greek (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), which has its own interesting implications.

I think it's obvious that the word play is directly related to the name that Jesus gave to Simon (John 1:42).
But I'm not going to make any dogmatic statements about the interpretation of Mat 16:18. However, I am inclined to believe that Jesus is referring to Peter as "the rock".

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Re: Michael Heiser & The Rock in Matthew 16:18

#3

Post by Philip » Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:36 am

DB: However, I am inclined to believe that Jesus is referring to Peter as "the rock".
But obviously wasn't making Peter head of the worldwide church as some supposed first Pope (as Catholics assert), with authority to make new teachings on his own!
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Re: Michael Heiser & The Rock in Matthew 16:18

#4

Post by DBowling » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:48 am

Philip wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:36 am
DB: However, I am inclined to believe that Jesus is referring to Peter as "the rock".
But obviously wasn't making Peter head of the worldwide church as some supposed first Pope (as Catholics assert), with authority to make new teachings on his own!
Correct...

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Re: Michael Heiser & The Rock in Matthew 16:18

#5

Post by Philip » Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:11 am

DBowling wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:48 am
Philip wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:36 am
DB: However, I am inclined to believe that Jesus is referring to Peter as "the rock".
But obviously wasn't making Peter head of the worldwide church as some supposed first Pope (as Catholics assert), with authority to make new teachings on his own!
Correct...
As is explained here, by John Ankerberg: https://www.jashow.org/articles/upon-this-rock/

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Re: Michael Heiser & The Rock in Matthew 16:18

#6

Post by samlrs » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:55 am

Philip wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:11 am
DBowling wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:48 am
Philip wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:36 am
DB: However, I am inclined to believe that Jesus is referring to Peter as "the rock".
But obviously wasn't making Peter head of the worldwide church as some supposed first Pope (as Catholics assert), with authority to make new teachings on his own!
Correct...
As is explained here, by John Ankerberg: https://www.jashow.org/articles/upon-this-rock/
Peter’s words brought a word of commendation from the Lord. Peter was blessed because he had come to a correct conclusion about the person of Christ and because great blessing would be brought into his life. The Lord added, however, this was not a conclusion Peter had determined by his own or others’ ability. God, the Father in heaven, had revealed it to him. Peter was living up to his name (it means “rock”) for he was demonstrating himself to be a rock. When the Lord and Peter first met, Jesus had said Simon would be named Cephas

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Re: Michael Heiser & The Rock in Matthew 16:18

#7

Post by Challenger007 » Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:03 am

DBowling wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:29 am
Philip wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:34 pm
Here, Dr. Heiser questions the common interpretations of the "upon this rock" passage of Matthew 16:18 - very interesting!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo

Comments? Thoughts?
Some thoughts...

As Heiser points out, I do believe that the location is extremely significant to this story.
When Jesus took his disciples to this location, it was a place of worship to the pagan god Pan.
And even more interestingly this location also contained a cave known as the "gates of hades". This cave was the source of a spring that the Greeks believed flowed from hades.

One of the interesting points to this story is that Jesus takes his disciples to the "gates of hades" and tells his disciples that the gates of hades will not prevail against the Church. In Jesus' illustration the Church is on offense, the 'gates of hades' are on defense, and Jesus' expectation is that the Church will overcome the 'gates of hades'.
Jesus' view of the Church on offense has significant implications regarding evangelization and eschatology among other things.

As for "this rock", I do believe that Jesus is deliberately making a play on words involving petros (little rock) and petra (big rock).
To the best of my knowledge this word play only works in Greek (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), which has its own interesting implications.

I think it's obvious that the word play is directly related to the name that Jesus gave to Simon (John 1:42).
But I'm not going to make any dogmatic statements about the interpretation of Mat 16:18. However, I am inclined to believe that Jesus is referring to Peter as "the rock".
Well, Peter is considered to be a pillar of Christianity. Therefore, such a play on words may well be interpreted as a metaphor. There are a lot of artistic descriptions in the biblical texts, which, if you think about it, can be attributed to specific individuals.

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