I'm New Here!

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grandpapapatrick
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Re: I'm New Here!

Postby grandpapapatrick » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:11 am

Neo-x Well Said! :clap:
But I am going to start a new thread that is more pertinent to my book and the rest of you enjoy discussing this topic which has been probably been discussed for many, many pages in the past.
Love to all,
GrandpapaPatrick

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Re: I'm New Here!

Postby RickD » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:11 am

grandpapapatrick wrote:What "assumptions" am I making? I thought I was being pretty straight forward.

With an accelerating and expanding universe, does a 6000 year old earth make any sense at all? Einstein was strongly in favor of a static universe because that is what he thought God would have created. To him it made no sense for God to create a changing universe. But when Hubble came out with the evidence he had no choice but to give in to the evidence. There is a vast amount of data clearly showing that the earth is vastly older than 6000 years old. Again we are back to the wild goose chase. God is not that mean. God is love. Clearly he gave us all this gray matter to be used. And God clearly wants us to study the wonderful universe that witnesses to His glory. Does it make any sense that he would leave behind evidence that lies.

One simple example is the craters on the moon. In no time in human history has anyone reported vast amounts of asteroids hitting the moon. So if God in that first week created the moon in one day with all the craters...Why would God create a moon that lies? A moon with evidence that at one time in the past vast numbers of asteroids impacted the moon, yet it never happened. Again, another mental wild goose chase. That is unlike the God I know.

There are a lot of other examples I could give but again, you can't pick and choose the scientific evidence that you are going to believe. Either you accept scientific evidence or you don't, unless you are going to produce your own evidence that challenges existing evidence. :) y(:| Time to go to bed. See you later. Big hug to all! y>:D<

The biggest assumption I see you making, is that if one doesn't believe in the totality of the ToE, then one must believe in a young earth. At least that's what it seems like you're saying.
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thatkidakayoungguy
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Re: I'm New Here!

Postby thatkidakayoungguy » Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:06 pm

grandpapapatrick wrote:So many people think that in most every other area, scientists
have things pretty much right, but in the theory of evolution
they have just blown it?

Evidence of common descent of living organisms has been
discovered by scientists researching in a variety of disciplines
over many decades, demonstrating the common descent of all
life on Earth developed from a last universal ancestor.

Evolutionary biologists document evidence of common descent
by developing testable predictions, testing hypotheses, and
constructing theories that illustrate and describe its causes.

But the key idea is not is evolution real, but don't we have a
wonderful Father in heaven who loves us and used this amazing
process in his divine wisdom to give rise to us!

I don't want to spend time talking about "what is a species" or
microevolution vs. macroevolution but to look at the big picture
and see how from the singularity to now how God used exploding
stars and gravity and the collision of Theia and Earth, with many
different parameters set just perfectly by Him not only us but a
universe where many, many other planets and moons likely contain
millions and millions of other societies with sentient life forms...
all to the glory of a spiritual triune Being without beginning or ending
who is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and maybe "interfered"
with His creation from time to time, to create unique changes and
miracles.

I am interested in studying this timeline, not to find scientific evidence
which I don't think exists or will exist because Jesus wants us to accept
Him on faith and not simply because the evidence exists.

Just my thoughts, I could be wrong. I have been wrong in the past and
this may be another time.

Lots of love to all! y>:D< Big Hug!
GrandpapaPatrick

I agree that Earth and Theia probably hit up long ago, and formed the moon. If the evidence is right, then the 4th day must be after 4-3 billion years ago.
But, about common descent, why does many parts of the bible compares humans with clay, or dust? Genesis 3:19, Genesis 2:7, Ecclesiastes 12:7, Ecclesiastes 3:20, just this https://www.openbible.info/topics/dust. This is where i disagree that we and chimps came from a primate, though i see why some think that. Imho, we were created independently but similarly to primates. Humans have a primate anatomy, no one can willfully deny that without being stubborn. What ultimately matters is the soul/spirit that sets us different from the other animals.

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abelcainsbrother
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Re: I'm New Here!

Postby abelcainsbrother » Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:45 am

People who accept evolution need to look for evidence because there are too many assumptions made about evolution to be considered true science.I don't care if in science "theory" means truth, it does'nt in the real world when the mechanism for how life evolves is so weak,and based on this everything else is assumed to be true.There are many things we could get into when it comes to evolution that have never been demonstrated and are based on assumptions.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

grandpapapatrick
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Re: I'm New Here!

Postby grandpapapatrick » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:38 am

I'm not sure that chimpanzees don't have a soul/spirit. First consider the chimpanzee and human genomes are more than 98% identical. Next consider how we behave. Chimps use tools, humans use tools (we are just better at it.) Chimps have the same emotions we do. Chimps become, angry, jealous, loving, chimps appear to grieve the death of other chimps, chimps laugh, chimps feel joy, chimps feel sadness, chimps fear, they have the whole spectrum of other emotions.

I'm not saying that chimps have a human soul, but chimps have a chimp soul (whatever that may be.) Which I believe all self-aware animals may have their own "mini-souls."

Also since 98.9% of chimp and human genes are identical and many other observable and repeatable facts makes evolution very hard to deny with honesty. If you are insistent that the evolution maybe you should ask yourself if your belief is based on facts or just based on your upbringing and what was taught to you.

Christians should not deny evolution but rejoice in it! It is God's wisdom. What a wonderful and beautiful idea for Him to come up with to make us! I find this whole fixation with evolution by Christians strange. God gave us this beautiful gray matter to discover more about God's creation. He surely intended for us to use it!

Sure, scientists have and will continue to be wrong, but when there is such a huge amount of evidence showing that it is very, very likely true, to deny it is intellectually dishonest.

Again, the biblical story of creation is a parable, like when Jesus says he is the Door He does not mean he is made of wood and has hedges. There is much of the bible that is poetry and not meant to be taken literally. Of course some parts are meant to be taken literally. Like Jesus is not a myth but a real Person who existed in history. The evidence shows it.

I suggest that you who are stuck on evolution to move on and consider the big picture of how God created the universe with a singularity! and then work forward to learn more about Him through his creation...and of course by His word.

Love to all... y>:D<
GrandpapaPatrick

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Re: I'm New Here!

Postby thatkidakayoungguy » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:48 am

grandpapapatrick wrote:I'm not sure that chimpanzees don't have a soul/spirit. First consider the chimpanzee and human genomes are more than 98% identical. Next consider how we behave. Chimps use tools, humans use tools (we are just better at it.) Chimps have the same emotions we do. Chimps become, angry, jealous, loving, chimps appear to grieve the death of other chimps, chimps laugh, chimps feel joy, chimps feel sadness, chimps fear, they have the whole spectrum of other emotions.

I'm not saying that chimps have a human soul, but chimps have a chimp soul (whatever that may be.) Which I believe all self-aware animals may have their own "mini-souls."

Also since 98.9% of chimp and human genes are identical and many other observable and repeatable facts makes evolution very hard to deny with honesty. If you are insistent that the evolution maybe you should ask yourself if your belief is based on facts or just based on your upbringing and what was taught to you.

Christians should not deny evolution but rejoice in it! It is God's wisdom. What a wonderful and beautiful idea for Him to come up with to make us! I find this whole fixation with evolution by Christians strange. God gave us this beautiful gray matter to discover more about God's creation. He surely intended for us to use it!

Sure, scientists have and will continue to be wrong, but when there is such a huge amount of evidence showing that it is very, very likely true, to deny it is intellectually dishonest.

Again, the biblical story of creation is a parable, like when Jesus says he is the Door He does not mean he is made of wood and has hedges. There is much of the bible that is poetry and not meant to be taken literally. Of course some parts are meant to be taken literally. Like Jesus is not a myth but a real Person who existed in history. The evidence shows it.

I suggest that you who are stuck on evolution to move on and consider the big picture of how God created the universe with a singularity! and then work forward to learn more about Him through his creation...and of course by His word.

Love to all... y>:D<
GrandpapaPatrick

I think animals may have a soul/spirit of their own. Look at dogs, they sure seem to have one. We are made in the image of God though, our spirit is different from the animals in that regard. God bless u 2.

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Re: I'm New Here!

Postby grandpapapatrick » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:21 am

thatkidakayoungguy - I totally agree. Dogs have little doggie soul/spirits and that is why we should respect all animals, not only because they are a creation of God but because they have little animal soul/spirits.

abelcainsbrother - May I suggest that you take a class in evolution, or do some online research on evolution not written by Christians. They will tell you about plenty of evidence for evolution. Study Ramapithecus, Australopithecus ramidus, Australopithecus afarensis, Australopithecus africanus, Australopithecus robustus, Australopithecus boisei, Homo habilis, Homo erectus, Homo sapiens, Homo sapiens sapiens, Cro-magnons and Neanderthals. Then tell me that God did not use his creative invention called evolution to create us. Try not to be one of those Christians that say, "Don't confuse me with the facts, I have already made up my mind." God wants us to openly examine the facts of creation and learn more about Him from it. Remember that His ways are not our ways.

Lots of love y>:D<
GrandpapaPatrick

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Re: I'm New Here!

Postby thatkidakayoungguy » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:46 am

grandpapapatrick wrote:thatkidakayoungguy - I totally agree. Dogs have little doggie soul/spirits and that is why we should respect all animals, not only because they are a creation of God but because they have little animal soul/spirits.

abelcainsbrother - May I suggest that you take a class in evolution, or do some online research on evolution not written by Christians. They will tell you about plenty of evidence for evolution. Study Ramapithecus, Australopithecus ramidus, Australopithecus afarensis, Australopithecus africanus, Australopithecus robustus, Australopithecus boisei, Homo habilis, Homo erectus, Homo sapiens, Homo sapiens sapiens, Cro-magnons and Neanderthals. Then tell me that God did not use his creative invention called evolution to create us. Try not to be one of those Christians that say, "Don't confuse me with the facts, I have already made up my mind." God wants us to openly examine the facts of creation and learn more about Him from it. Remember that His ways are not our ways.

Lots of love y>:D<
GrandpapaPatrick

Ha, I have a thread about those guys.

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Re: I'm New Here!

Postby RickD » Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:04 pm

grandpapapatrick wrote:I'm not sure that chimpanzees don't have a soul/spirit. First consider the chimpanzee and human genomes are more than 98% identical. Next consider how we behave. Chimps use tools, humans use tools (we are just better at it.) Chimps have the same emotions we do. Chimps become, angry, jealous, loving, chimps appear to grieve the death of other chimps, chimps laugh, chimps feel joy, chimps feel sadness, chimps fear, they have the whole spectrum of other emotions.

I'm not saying that chimps have a human soul, but chimps have a chimp soul (whatever that may be.) Which I believe all self-aware animals may have their own "mini-souls."

Also since 98.9% of chimp and human genes are identical and many other observable and repeatable facts makes evolution very hard to deny with honesty. If you are insistent that the evolution maybe you should ask yourself if your belief is based on facts or just based on your upbringing and what was taught to you.

Christians should not deny evolution but rejoice in it! It is God's wisdom. What a wonderful and beautiful idea for Him to come up with to make us! I find this whole fixation with evolution by Christians strange. God gave us this beautiful gray matter to discover more about God's creation. He surely intended for us to use it!

Sure, scientists have and will continue to be wrong, but when there is such a huge amount of evidence showing that it is very, very likely true, to deny it is intellectually dishonest.

Again, the biblical story of creation is a parable, like when Jesus says he is the Door He does not mean he is made of wood and has hedges. There is much of the bible that is poetry and not meant to be taken literally. Of course some parts are meant to be taken literally. Like Jesus is not a myth but a real Person who existed in history. The evidence shows it.

I suggest that you who are stuck on evolution to move on and consider the big picture of how God created the universe with a singularity! and then work forward to learn more about Him through his creation...and of course by His word.

Love to all... y>:D<
GrandpapaPatrick

A dogmatic Evolutionist. I thought dogmatism was reserved for certain YECs. I sit corrected.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


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Re: I'm New Here!

Postby grandpapapatrick » Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:17 pm

Yes, I'm dogmatic about Jesus, dogmatic about plate tectonics, I'm dogmatic about every true thing. Especially when there is a massive amount of data proving it is true :D :wave: bye bye

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Re: I'm New Here!

Postby RickD » Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:23 pm

grandpapapatrick wrote:Yes, I'm dogmatic about Jesus, dogmatic about plate tectonics, I'm dogmatic about every true thing. Especially when there is a massive amount of data proving it is true :D :wave: bye bye

Dogmatism:
: the expression of an opinion or belief as if it were a fact : positiveness in assertion of opinion especially when unwarranted or arrogant.


Is this really something you want to be proud of?
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9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


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Re: I'm New Here!

Postby Kurieuo » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:26 pm

grandpapapatrick wrote:First consider the chimpanzee and human genomes are more than 98% identical. Next consider how we behave.

You're wrong, that isn't true nor is it claimed by evolutionary scientists.
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Re: I'm New Here!

Postby RickD » Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:25 am

Kurieuo wrote:
grandpapapatrick wrote:First consider the chimpanzee and human genomes are more than 98% identical. Next consider how we behave.

You're wrong, that isn't true nor is it claimed by evolutionary scientists.

Seems dogmatism leads to fact twisting. y:-?
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9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


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Re: I'm New Here!

Postby Kurieuo » Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:27 am

RickD wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
grandpapapatrick wrote:First consider the chimpanzee and human genomes are more than 98% identical. Next consider how we behave.

You're wrong, that isn't true nor is it claimed by evolutionary scientists.

Seems dogmatism leads to fact twisting. y:-?

Yes, it seems the dogmatism GPP is repulsed by is the same being displayed imho.
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Re: I'm New Here!

Postby abelcainsbrother » Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:41 am

grandpapapatrick wrote:thatkidakayoungguy - I totally agree. Dogs have little doggie soul/spirits and that is why we should respect all animals, not only because they are a creation of God but because they have little animal soul/spirits.

abelcainsbrother - May I suggest that you take a class in evolution, or do some online research on evolution not written by Christians. They will tell you about plenty of evidence for evolution. Study Ramapithecus, Australopithecus ramidus, Australopithecus afarensis, Australopithecus africanus, Australopithecus robustus, Australopithecus boisei, Homo habilis, Homo erectus, Homo sapiens, Homo sapiens sapiens, Cro-magnons and Neanderthals. Then tell me that God did not use his creative invention called evolution to create us. Try not to be one of those Christians that say, "Don't confuse me with the facts, I have already made up my mind." God wants us to openly examine the facts of creation and learn more about Him from it. Remember that His ways are not our ways.

Lots of love y>:D<
GrandpapaPatrick


I learned most of what I know about evolution from dealing with atheists through the years and the evidence is weak for how life evolves,therefore most of everything about evolution is based on assumptions.
Now if you are a Christian then your creation interpretation is not a salvation issue but I do not accept evolution based on its own evidence.Instead I have found a more credible and more believable creation theory.And all of them things you mentioned "Study Ramapithecus, Australopithecus ramidus, Australopithecus afarensis, Australopithecus africanus, Australopithecus robustus, Australopithecus boisei, Homo habilis, Homo erectus, Homo sapiens, Homo sapiens sapiens, Cro-magnons and Neanderthals." are life that lived in a former world and have nothing to do with this world.They are evidence of the kinds of life that lived in the former world that perished completely before God made this world and the kinds of life we have in this world.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.


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