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Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:11 pm
by Kurieuo
Kenny wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
Kenny wrote:(LOL) Perhaps I'm a sucker; but I fall for anything my brain tells me.

In which case, you really have no say right? It's all just your brain.

I and my brain are one.

And, what is the "I"?

Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:21 pm
by Kenny
Kurieuo wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
Kenny wrote:(LOL) Perhaps I'm a sucker; but I fall for anything my brain tells me.

In which case, you really have no say right? It's all just your brain.

I and my brain are one.

And, what is the "I"?

I am Ken

Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:56 pm
by Kurieuo
Kenny wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
Kenny wrote:(LOL) Perhaps I'm a sucker; but I fall for anything my brain tells me.

In which case, you really have no say right? It's all just your brain.

I and my brain are one.

And, what is the "I"?

I am Ken

Which is your brain?

Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:09 pm
by Kenny
Kurieuo wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:In which case, you really have no say right? It's all just your brain.

I and my brain are one.

And, what is the "I"?

I am Ken

Which is your brain?

Not just my brain, but also my skin, my lungs, my bones, hair, blood, muscles, tendons, etc. etc. do you get my point? Or should I go on.....

Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:17 pm
by Kurieuo
Kenny wrote:(LOL) Perhaps I'm a sucker; but I fall for anything my brain tells me.

Kurieuo wrote:In which case, you really have no say right? It's all just your brain.

Kenny wrote:I and my brain are one.

Kurieuo wrote:And, what is the "I"?

Kenny wrote:I am Ken

Kurieuo wrote:Which is your brain?

Kenny wrote:Not just my brain, but also my skin, my lungs, my bones, hair, blood, muscles, tendons, etc. etc. do you get my point? Or should I go on.....

So then, if "I" is "Ken" which is not just your brain, also your skin, your lungs, your bones, hair, blood, muscles, tendons, etc. etc. Then you simply just go along with your body, it's not like you have any say to do otherwise, right?

Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:27 pm
by Kenny
Kurieuo wrote:
Kenny wrote:(LOL) Perhaps I'm a sucker; but I fall for anything my brain tells me.

Kurieuo wrote:In which case, you really have no say right? It's all just your brain.

Kenny wrote:I and my brain are one.

Kurieuo wrote:And, what is the "I"?

Kenny wrote:I am Ken

Kurieuo wrote:Which is your brain?

Kenny wrote:Not just my brain, but also my skin, my lungs, my bones, hair, blood, muscles, tendons, etc. etc. do you get my point? Or should I go on.....

So then, if "I" is "Ken" which is not just your brain, also your skin, your lungs, your bones, hair, blood, muscles, tendons, etc. etc. Then you simply just go along with your body, it's not like you have any say to do otherwise, right?

Okay; I was kina jokin' when I said I fall for anything my brain tells me. My brain and body is who I am.

Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:03 am
by PaulSacramento
Circular reason, thy name is Ken.

Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:31 am
by PaulSacramento
Kurieuo wrote:Kenny, wondering if you watch much of YouTube, and if so whether you've heard Jordan Peterson talk? He has had discussions with Sam Harris and others, and besides the recent smearing certain media personalities have tried to do of him, is well liked by Atheists and Christians alike. I myself find him interesting, because he's not Christian, and yet clearly sees certain archetypes in the world, things deeply rooted in our consciousnessthat, that many religious or theists tend use as arguments for God. While not afraid to discuss God, that isn't where he stops, navigating through, around and past them in a very thought-provoking way.

Anyway, I don't know your thoughts on Shapiro, but Rubin had both on his show and covered some of this things mentioned here. I think you kind of know things aren't simple about many matters we discuss, to do with morality, consciousness and the like which are often thrown your way. Peterson however, has a way of talking about such matters, related matters, that I think is beneficial to both secular and Christian thinking alike on such matters. I've never seen someone as intriguing so thought to share for others to listen to in their spare time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRPDGEgaATU



Jordan Peterson has some of the most though provoking videos on youtube and his series on the bible is just top notch,period.

Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:13 am
by Nicki
Kenny wrote:Okay here is how I see it. Theists believe in God, Atheist do not believe in God, and Agnostics claim it is impossible to know if God exists or not
IOW; I see Theism and Atheism about what one believes, and Agnosticism about what you KNOW; a completely different subject.
If I were an Agnostic and you asked me if I believed in God and I responded there is no way of knowing if God exists or not, I haven’t answered your question because you asked about belief not knowledge. Does this make sense to you?


Going back to this... I disagree with your distinction. Agnostics believe it's impossible to know if God exists or not. If you were agnostic and you responded the way you mentioned, you'd be sharing your beliefs. I suppose theists and atheists believe they do know the answer to the question.

Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:03 am
by PaulSacramento
Everything is a belief.
be·lief
bəˈlēf/Submit
noun
1.
an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
"his belief in the value of hard work"
2.
trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.

And people CHOOSE what they believe in.

Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:23 am
by RickD
Nicki wrote:
Kenny wrote:Okay here is how I see it. Theists believe in God, Atheist do not believe in God, and Agnostics claim it is impossible to know if God exists or not
IOW; I see Theism and Atheism about what one believes, and Agnosticism about what you KNOW; a completely different subject.
If I were an Agnostic and you asked me if I believed in God and I responded there is no way of knowing if God exists or not, I haven’t answered your question because you asked about belief not knowledge. Does this make sense to you?


Going back to this... I disagree with your distinction. Agnostics believe it's impossible to know if God exists or not. If you were agnostic and you responded the way you mentioned, you'd be sharing your beliefs. I suppose theists and atheists believe they do know the answer to the question.

Yes. In order to make a claim about something, don't you first have to believe what you're making a claim about?

Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:47 am
by PaulSacramento
Some people, typically skeptics, are intimated by the word "belief", because they think it means something irrational.
The moment we accept anything, fact or otherwise, we are making a statement of belief.
To accept the 1st law of thermodynamics is to believe the evidence presented to you :
That the energy withing a closes system will remain constant, that energy can be transformed but never created or destroyed.

This is a statement of belief.

Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:12 pm
by Kenny
Kenny wrote:Okay here is how I see it. Theists believe in God, Atheist do not believe in God, and Agnostics claim it is impossible to know if God exists or not
IOW; I see Theism and Atheism about what one believes, and Agnosticism about what you KNOW; a completely different subject.
If I were an Agnostic and you asked me if I believed in God and I responded there is no way of knowing if God exists or not, I haven’t answered your question because you asked about belief not knowledge. Does this make sense to you?


Nicki wrote: Going back to this... I disagree with your distinction. Agnostics believe it's impossible to know if God exists or not. If you were agnostic and you responded the way you mentioned, you'd be sharing your beliefs.

True, they would be sharing their belief, but they would not be answering the question. The question was not if its possible to KNOW, the question is DO YOU BELIEVE! Not just any belief, but specifically a belief in God. This requires a yes or no answer; anything else is eluding the question
Nicki wrote: I suppose theists and atheists believe they do know the answer to the question.

Actually Gnostic is the claim of knowing.

Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:17 pm
by Kenny
PaulSacramento wrote:Some people, typically skeptics, are intimated by the word "belief", because they think it means something irrational.
The moment we accept anything, fact or otherwise, we are making a statement of belief.
To accept the 1st law of thermodynamics is to believe the evidence presented to you :
That the energy withing a closes system will remain constant, that energy can be transformed but never created or destroyed.

This is a statement of belief.

There are plenty of beliefs a skeptic will have. I don't think they are in any way intimated by the word belief, it's just that they are too often approached with what is seen as irrational claims only backed up by "belief" and the skeptic will dismiss what he sees as an irrational claim.

Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:43 pm
by PaulSacramento
Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:Some people, typically skeptics, are intimated by the word "belief", because they think it means something irrational.
The moment we accept anything, fact or otherwise, we are making a statement of belief.
To accept the 1st law of thermodynamics is to believe the evidence presented to you :
That the energy withing a closes system will remain constant, that energy can be transformed but never created or destroyed.

This is a statement of belief.

There are plenty of beliefs a skeptic will have. I don't think they are in any way intimated by the word belief, it's just that they are too often approached with what is seen as irrational claims only backed up by "belief" and the skeptic will dismiss what he sees as an irrational claim.


Kenny,
The word belief has nothing to do with the validity of the belief, right?
The moment you accept something you believe it and the moment you don't you believe it you don't accept it, right?