There is no Hope without Jesus

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
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Kurieuo
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Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Postby Kurieuo » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:12 pm

Kenny, wondering if you watch much of YouTube, and if so whether you've heard Jordan Peterson talk? He has had discussions with Sam Harris and others, and besides the recent smearing certain media personalities have tried to do of him, is well liked by Atheists and Christians alike. I myself find him interesting, because he's not Christian, and yet clearly sees certain archetypes in the world, things deeply rooted in our consciousnessthat, that many religious or theists tend use as arguments for God. While not afraid to discuss God, that isn't where he stops, navigating through, around and past them in a very thought-provoking way.

Anyway, I don't know your thoughts on Shapiro, but Rubin had both on his show and covered some of this things mentioned here. I think you kind of know things aren't simple about many matters we discuss, to do with morality, consciousness and the like which are often thrown your way. Peterson however, has a way of talking about such matters, related matters, that I think is beneficial to both secular and Christian thinking alike on such matters. I've never seen someone as intriguing so thought to share for others to listen to in their spare time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRPDGEgaATU
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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PaulSacramento
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Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Postby PaulSacramento » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:54 am

Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Kenny wrote:

Your conscience is only based on what you believe to be true.


That is not what I asked Kenny, I asked what is the truth ABOUT your conscience.
Can you demonstrate that you have one? show me your conscience.
Show me you have thoughts.
Not the EFFECT of these things but these ACTUAL things.


Are you asking about the existence of my conscious? The conscious is a result of thoughts; and though are considered subjective (no actual existence by themselves) they are a result of the brain which is objective. Now if you are asking me to demonstrate my brains is capable of thoughts to include a conscious, what type of demonstration are you asking for?

Your brain is objective? how do you know that?

Before I answer your question; in order to make sure we're on the same page; how are you defining "objective"?

This is about how YOU are defining it.

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Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Postby Kenny » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:30 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:
Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
That is not what I asked Kenny, I asked what is the truth ABOUT your conscience.
Can you demonstrate that you have one? show me your conscience.
Show me you have thoughts.
Not the EFFECT of these things but these ACTUAL things.


Are you asking about the existence of my conscious? The conscious is a result of thoughts; and though are considered subjective (no actual existence by themselves) they are a result of the brain which is objective. Now if you are asking me to demonstrate my brains is capable of thoughts to include a conscious, what type of demonstration are you asking for?

Your brain is objective? how do you know that?

Before I answer your question; in order to make sure we're on the same page; how are you defining "objective"?

This is about how YOU are defining it.


I define objective as something that can be demonstrated as true. So you ask how do I know the existence of my brain is objective? Humans cannot live without a brain so the fact that I am alive demonstrates I have an existing brain.

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Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Postby RickD » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:20 pm

Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Are you asking about the existence of my conscious? The conscious is a result of thoughts; and though are considered subjective (no actual existence by themselves) they are a result of the brain which is objective. Now if you are asking me to demonstrate my brains is capable of thoughts to include a conscious, what type of demonstration are you asking for?

Your brain is objective? how do you know that?

Before I answer your question; in order to make sure we're on the same page; how are you defining "objective"?

This is about how YOU are defining it.


I define objective as something that can be demonstrated as true. So you ask how do I know the existence of my brain is objective? Humans cannot live without a brain so the fact that I am alive demonstrates I have an existing brain.

Which of the definitions here, does your brain being objective, fit into. Just pick the number 1-10.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Kenny
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Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Postby Kenny » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:21 pm

RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:Your brain is objective? how do you know that?

Before I answer your question; in order to make sure we're on the same page; how are you defining "objective"?

This is about how YOU are defining it.


I define objective as something that can be demonstrated as true. So you ask how do I know the existence of my brain is objective? Humans cannot live without a brain so the fact that I am alive demonstrates I have an existing brain.

Which of the definitions here, does your brain being objective, fit into. Just pick the number 1-10.

Okay; and just to be clear, we are actually discussing the existence of my brain being objective; not my brain itself being objective; just so there is clarity. With that said, I would say the closest would be #5 because the existence of my brain is based on fact; not interpretation or personal feelings.

K

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abelcainsbrother
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Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Postby abelcainsbrother » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:40 pm

Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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RickD
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Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Postby RickD » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:09 am

Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Kenny wrote:Before I answer your question; in order to make sure we're on the same page; how are you defining "objective"?

This is about how YOU are defining it.


I define objective as something that can be demonstrated as true. So you ask how do I know the existence of my brain is objective? Humans cannot live without a brain so the fact that I am alive demonstrates I have an existing brain.

Which of the definitions here, does your brain being objective, fit into. Just pick the number 1-10.

Okay; and just to be clear, we are actually discussing the existence of my brain being objective; not my brain itself being objective; just so there is clarity. With that said, I would say the closest would be #5 because the existence of my brain is based on fact; not interpretation or personal feelings.

K

y:O2
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

PaulSacramento
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Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Postby PaulSacramento » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:21 am

Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Are you asking about the existence of my conscious? The conscious is a result of thoughts; and though are considered subjective (no actual existence by themselves) they are a result of the brain which is objective. Now if you are asking me to demonstrate my brains is capable of thoughts to include a conscious, what type of demonstration are you asking for?

Your brain is objective? how do you know that?

Before I answer your question; in order to make sure we're on the same page; how are you defining "objective"?

This is about how YOU are defining it.


I define objective as something that can be demonstrated as true. So you ask how do I know the existence of my brain is objective? Humans cannot live without a brain so the fact that I am alive demonstrates I have an existing brain.


So, you know that your brain is objective because you are alive and humans can't live without a brain?
How do you know you are alive?

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Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Postby Kenny » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:35 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:Your brain is objective? how do you know that?

Before I answer your question; in order to make sure we're on the same page; how are you defining "objective"?

This is about how YOU are defining it.


I define objective as something that can be demonstrated as true. So you ask how do I know the existence of my brain is objective? Humans cannot live without a brain so the fact that I am alive demonstrates I have an existing brain.


So, you know that your brain is objective because you are alive and humans can't live without a brain?
How do you know you are alive?

The same way everyone else knows; I know what it means to be alive, and it applies to myself. How do you determine that you are alive?

PaulSacramento
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Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Postby PaulSacramento » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:23 am

So you have a brain because your brain tells you that you have one, is that what you are saying?

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Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Postby Kenny » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:19 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:So you have a brain because your brain tells you that you have one, is that what you are saying?

That's not what I said, but if you wanna go with that; I'd be okay with it.

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Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Postby RickD » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:19 am

Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:So you have a brain because your brain tells you that you have one, is that what you are saying?

That's not what I said, but if you wanna go with that; I'd be okay with it.

I used to think that my brain was the most important organ in my body, until I realized what was telling me that.
y:-?
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Kenny
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Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Postby Kenny » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:18 pm

RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:So you have a brain because your brain tells you that you have one, is that what you are saying?

That's not what I said, but if you wanna go with that; I'd be okay with it.

I used to think that my brain was the most important organ in my body, until I realized what was telling me that.
y:-?

(LOL) Perhaps I'm a sucker; but I fall for anything my brain tells me.

K

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Kurieuo
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Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Postby Kurieuo » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:13 pm

Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:So you have a brain because your brain tells you that you have one, is that what you are saying?

That's not what I said, but if you wanna go with that; I'd be okay with it.

I used to think that my brain was the most important organ in my body, until I realized what was telling me that.
y:-?

(LOL) Perhaps I'm a sucker; but I fall for anything my brain tells me.

In which case, you really have no say right? It's all just your brain.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Kenny
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Re: There is no Hope without Jesus

Postby Kenny » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:26 pm

Kurieuo wrote:
Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:So you have a brain because your brain tells you that you have one, is that what you are saying?

That's not what I said, but if you wanna go with that; I'd be okay with it.

I used to think that my brain was the most important organ in my body, until I realized what was telling me that.
y:-?

(LOL) Perhaps I'm a sucker; but I fall for anything my brain tells me.

In which case, you really have no say right? It's all just your brain.

I and my brain are one.

K


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