Kenny wrote:So in theory; if the singularity that expanded in what is known as the “Big Bang” was that something that always existed which everything sprouted from, you would consider that God? Fair enough. If it’s non intelligent, conscious, or capable of thought, I may recognize its existence, but I definitely would not call it God.
Mallz wrote: And what would you call 'it', which is existence (it doesn't have existence, it just is).
I would call it the first rock, singularity, material, whatever it is called, but definitely not God.
Kenny wrote:To not believe in God:
Whatever claims you make about whatever it is you choose to call God, I don’t believe those claims
To not believe God exist:
Whatever it is you call God, I don’t believe it exist.
Mallz wrote: I'm not sure what you're trying to show here? Atheists believe God doesn't exist, I think we both know that. What distinction are you trying to make and why?
No; the idea that Atheists believe God doesn’t exist is what theists believe about atheists. If you really wanna know what atheists believe, talk to an actual atheist. And you’re in luck today my friend! I’m an atheist; so just listen to me. Forget about all that stuff (propaganda) they have been telling you about us; just take my word for it. Okay???
The point I was trying to make was that there is a big difference between not believing what people say about “X” vs the claim that “X” doesn’t exist. Now can you see the difference in that? Or do I need to explain further.
Kenny wrote:Which God? Only YOUR God? Atheists don’t believe in any God. To limit atheism to a belief that what is called God doesn’t exist would mean that because there are those who worship the Sun, an atheist would have to deny the Sun exist because someone chooses to call it God. That would be a foolish and impossible position to hold. The reality is; if you don’t believe in God, people will label you atheist.
Mallz wrote: My God? What are you talking about now?! How do you not understand that there either is God or is no God? Stop getting caught up in the identity.
Well I understand there is NO God, but there are plenty of people who will swear up and down that there is. Ya see; when a theists ask me about God they usually want to know my opinion on not just what THEY call God, but what others may call God as well. This is what I was addressing, because you weren't very clear with your questions and claims. But hence fourth; for the sake of this conversation I will assume you mean the God of the Bible. Okay?
Mallz wrote: IF there is a God, it is a God of EVERYTHING and EVERYONE. Atheist denying the sun exists? What nonsense is this? Is the Sun God Kenny? No.
Well there were an awful lot of Japanese who used to think it was! Shouldn’t surprise you; after all a few responses back you seemed willing to accept a rock/singularity/matter etc. as God as long as it is what lead to the existence of everything else. Perhaps they were taking your logic and applying it to the Sun instead of a rock; I dunno but that was before we agreed God in this conversation means the God of the Bible.
Mallz wrote: Those people who worship the sun are wrong. They aren't worshiping God, but the sun (as we both know). So what game are you playing here?
Kenny wrote:Atheists don’t believe something came from nothing, that’s just theistic propaganda. Think about it; if I asked you where did God come from; would you claim he came from nothing? Whatever rules, or laws of nature, reality, etc. that you can break in order to proclaim God didn’t come from nothing; the atheist can break and apply to something that is not God.
Oh so there is an atheist philosophy now? And it requires faith? Tell me about it! (*hint* more theistic propaganda)
Mallz wrote: Propaganda? Where are you getting that from? There's a philosophy with everything, that shouldn't be news.. Are you going to say atheism has no philosophy!?
Yes. If you think there is, please explain.
Mallz wrote: Are you going to propose it doesn't take faith to believe in anything?
Some things require faith, others things don’t. From my experience; where there is adequate evidence no one speaks of faith. Nobody speaks of faith when it comes to math, or if the Sun will rise; they only speak of faith when there is a lack of evidence.
Mallz wrote:And I don't break anything as the existence of God is self evident, as evident as something comes from something and not nothing. But that's propaganda, right?
If you believe that, then you should understand why the belief that something comes from nothing is not an atheist position.
Mallz wrote: Atheism isn't an impossible camp and as I said in our earlier conversations, I've talked to people with that belief. It's just an unreasonable camp.
Perhaps you’ve been talking to the wrong people. You’re talking to me now. If you feel Atheism is an unreasonable camp, explain why; perhaps I can dispel some of the propaganda Opps!! I mean misconceptions you’ve been taught about us.
Mallz wrote: And I don't think many people fit into it. But I also see most people as hypocrites in their own world view and don't think past their day to day activities.
I can’t speak for the people you associate with, but most of the people I know don’t fit into that category.
Mallz wrote: You keep throwing the term God around as if it is a changing definition. It's not. That's part of the point. You don't get to say who God is, I don't, nor anything that came from Existence.
Are you sure about that? Because for someone who doesn’t get to say who God is, just a few posts ago; you sure spent an awful lot of time saying who God is, what God is, and what he is not! Might wanna rethink that one my friend!
Mallz wrote: Maybe i'll run you through the nothing=atheism conclusion by necessity, but I'm not really encouraged to do so.
C’mon let’s do it! Perhaps we can both learn something.