Kenny wrote:It seems to make sense that if we are going to talk about God, we should at least talk about a God that at least one of us believe in. However, if you wish to talk about Allah, Odin, or some other God neither of us believes in, I’m open to that as well.
Mallz wrote: And this is why I say you keep going for the 'big guy in the sky'. Polytheism is false, you can get there with reason alone (is this news?). Your concepts about 'God'.. i'm trying to move away from cultural misconceptions you have that you show through your though process and explanations.
First of all, Allah and Odin are not Gods of polytheism. But if you are trying to get me away from misconceptions, explain your concept of God, and we can have a discussion.
Kenny wrote:Did I make a mistake by assuming you worship the God of the Bible?
Mallz wrote:No, and I'm not convinced you know much of anything about the God of the Bible beyond some talking points.
Kenny wrote:My analogy of Santa Clause was not about you, it was about me. I was trying to get you to see things from my perspective.
Mallz wrote: I know, and I see it. You have a lot of blind faith. You believe santa exists because of the toys you had received? Is that really all you need to be convinced over something? I don't believe you're that naive.
You’ve obviously missed the point I was making. You said eternal shows God’s presence.
My point was to show that eternal may show God’s presence to YOU, but it does not to me.
Kenny wrote:Whaassup with this “big guy in the sky” thing you keep bringing up? All I said was “the God of the Bible”, and you seem to presuppose I’m thinking of some big guy in the sky! Where are you getting this stuff???
Mallz wrote:From your explanations and thought process. You keep referring to God as a being and can't get beyond the concept of such.
Kenny wrote:If you want me to understand what you believe, all you have to do is tell me what you believe, and we can go from there.
Mallz wrote: I just want my words to have their intended meaning to you when I talk with you. But that could easily be my fault, miscommunication and such. What I really want, Ken, is to show you the necessity that God exists from an Agnostic stand point, that atheism is most illogical, unreasonable and takes a unique blind faith that the inquisition would be proud of.
Great! I’m all ears. Lets have a conversation.
Kenny wrote:Whoa, whoa, slow-down pork chop! Perhaps you should go back and read what I actually wrote. All I did was make the assumption that because you claim to be Christian, that you worship the God described in the Bible, and you took that little bit of info and just ran with it! I never described the God of the bible, I never claimed he is some big guy in the sky, and I never presupposed the details of what you believe, it sounds like you're getting a little ahead of yourself here; slow down chief!
What's that one from? Perhaps, but again, you're reasoning shows differently to me. And since we were talking to each other, and you know I'm Christian, how else am I supposed to take what you wrote to me?
Mallz wrote: From my position, God could be the multiverse. You see the irony in that?
Kenny wrote:Umm….No I don’t.
Mallz wrote: Do you see that the multiverse could = God?
There are those who worship the Sun, and Nature as God, so of course I could consider you believing in the existence of a Multiverse and calling that God. Of course I wouldn’t call it God though.
Kenny wrote:Okay; now that you’ve described what you care about, if you want to have a discussion about God, you need to describe the God you believe in; or as I mentioned before, if you wish to discuss a God neither of us believe in, I’m open to that as well.
Mallz wrote: I'm not interested in peoples opinions about reality, I'm interested in reality. What I don't see, is how you're atheist and not agnostic. I would be interested in your thoughts of the two and where you fit, however.
Okay here is how I see it. Theists believe
in God, Atheist do not believe
in God, and Agnostics claim it is impossible to know
if God exists or not
IOW; I see Theism and Atheism about what one believes
, and Agnosticism about what you KNOW; a completely different subject.
If I were an Agnostic and you asked me if I believed
in God and I responded there is no way of knowing
if God exists or not, I haven’t answered your question because you asked about belief not knowledge. Does this make sense to you?
Kenny wrote:So do you believe God is non intelligent, studied, measured, and analyzed by science like energy is?
Mallz wrote: I believe that the relation between the divine and created can be seen in quantum mechanics. And like with any science, the more it develops, the more we will see Him and His affects. You can study and measure and analyze God from His promises and interactions with creation. And yes, even see His light work in waves. But such areas of study are advanced from the knowledge of Gods existence and after the revelation of what this God is, as those things are engaged only on the Personhood of God (which you would have to 'get to' first). I see the first stage to be acknowledging an agnostic position (God doesn't have to be intelligent, it could be the multiverse or any materialistic explanation [which would just propose that God is material, unintelligent and seemingly random]).
How about if you just tell me what you believe God is? You’re saying a lot but we don’t seem to be getting anywhere. If you want me to consider the possibility that God is energy, the Universe, Multiverse, or something else physical? The best I can do for you is to recognize that YOU may see those things as God, but I do not.