Is God responsible?

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
Kenny
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Re: Is God responsible?

Postby Kenny » Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:33 pm

Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:Atheists, agnostics...

If there was a God, would He be responsible for your lack of faith in Him?

If we assume God exists and he wants us to know he exists, then I would say he is to blame for whatever non-belief one might have. However if God exists, I would not assume he wants us to know he exists because of how well he has remained hidden; thus there would be no blame because it is all by design.

Ken


B. W. wrote: man left his home the forest and traveled to a far away land where there were no forest. If one walked away from the trees in the forest and chose to live in a desert, does the forest still exist?

Yes

B. W. wrote:One can deny the existence of trees only at the expense of ignoring the evidence that trees exist.

Who walked away from whom would be a better question and why.-

If you are referring to the previous conversations we had about my previous theistic beliefs, using your forest analogy; I never saw any trees, I just believed they were there because everybody I believed in and trusted told me the trees were there. So it’s not like I actually walked away from any trees, I just walked away from the BELIEF that there were trees.

Ken

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Re: Is God responsible?

Postby RickD » Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:47 am

Kenny wrote:

If you are referring to the previous conversations we had about my previous theistic beliefs, using your forest analogy; I never saw any trees, I just believed they were there because everybody I believed in and trusted told me the trees were there. So it’s not like I actually walked away from any trees, I just walked away from the BELIEF that there were trees.

Ken


So Kenny, be honest. You were never a Christian, like you said you were, correct? You never placed your faith in Jesus Christ. You never actually trusted in him, did you?


You do understand that there's a difference between trusting in Christ, and just believing God exists, because people you trusted, told you He existed?

So in reality, this whole, "I used to be a Christian" schpeel is false, correct?
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Is God responsible?

Postby Audie » Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:06 am

RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:

If you are referring to the previous conversations we had about my previous theistic beliefs, using your forest analogy; I never saw any trees, I just believed they were there because everybody I believed in and trusted told me the trees were there. So it’s not like I actually walked away from any trees, I just walked away from the BELIEF that there were trees.

Ken


So Kenny, be honest. You were never a Christian, like you said you were, correct? You never placed your faith in Jesus Christ. You never actually trusted in him, did you?


You do understand that there's a difference between trusting in Christ, and just believing God exists, because people you trusted, told you He existed?

So in reality, this whole, "I used to be a Christian" schpeel is false, correct?


Likewise for those who used to be atheists, after having been a Christian, but are now Christians again.

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Re: Is God responsible?

Postby Kenny » Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:29 am

Kenny wrote:

If you are referring to the previous conversations we had about my previous theistic beliefs, using your forest analogy; I never saw any trees, I just believed they were there because everybody I believed in and trusted told me the trees were there. So it’s not like I actually walked away from any trees, I just walked away from the BELIEF that there were trees.

Ken


RickD wrote:So Kenny, be honest. You were never a Christian, like you said you were, correct?

Hummm... How are you defining "Christian"?
RickD wrote:You never placed your faith in Jesus Christ. You never actually trusted in him, did you?

Of course I did! That's what all Christians do.
RickD wrote:You do understand that there's a difference between trusting in Christ, and just believing God exists, because people you trusted, told you He existed?

Yes; but in my case, I trusted in Christ, and believed in God based on what people I trusted told me.
RickD wrote:So in reality, this whole, "I used to be a Christian" schpeel is false, correct?

No; that would be incorrect.

Ken

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Re: Is God responsible?

Postby Kenny » Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:29 am

Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:

If you are referring to the previous conversations we had about my previous theistic beliefs, using your forest analogy; I never saw any trees, I just believed they were there because everybody I believed in and trusted told me the trees were there. So it’s not like I actually walked away from any trees, I just walked away from the BELIEF that there were trees.

Ken


So Kenny, be honest. You were never a Christian, like you said you were, correct? You never placed your faith in Jesus Christ. You never actually trusted in him, did you?


You do understand that there's a difference between trusting in Christ, and just believing God exists, because people you trusted, told you He existed?

So in reality, this whole, "I used to be a Christian" schpeel is false, correct?


Likewise for those who used to be atheists, after having been a Christian, but are now Christians again.

Excellent point!

Ken

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Re: Is God responsible?

Postby Kenny » Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:03 am

Jac3510 wrote:Maybe I could choose to believe God does not exist so that I can give an answer to the OP.

Trying to believe God doesn't exist . . .

Trying . . .

Still trying . . .

Trying really, really, really hard . . .


Well. That was a waste of time. Sorry, Nessa. Couldn't do it. Pretend I didn't post this.

Excellent point about the old argument of "choosing what we believe"

K

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Re: Is God responsible?

Postby Audie » Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:21 am

Kenny wrote:
Jac3510 wrote:Maybe I could choose to believe God does not exist so that I can give an answer to the OP.

Trying to believe God doesn't exist . . .

Trying . . .

Still trying . . .

Trying really, really, really hard . . .


Well. That was a waste of time. Sorry, Nessa. Couldn't do it. Pretend I didn't post this.

Excellent point about the old argument of "choosing what we believe"

K



There's three people who can see this simple concept. Any others?

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Re: Is God responsible?

Postby B. W. » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:37 am

Kenny wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:Atheists, agnostics...

If there was a God, would He be responsible for your lack of faith in Him?

If we assume God exists and he wants us to know he exists, then I would say he is to blame for whatever non-belief one might have. However if God exists, I would not assume he wants us to know he exists because of how well he has remained hidden; thus there would be no blame because it is all by design.

Ken


B. W. wrote: man left his home the forest and traveled to a far away land where there were no forest. If one walked away from the trees in the forest and chose to live in a desert, does the forest still exist?

Yes

B. W. wrote:One can deny the existence of trees only at the expense of ignoring the evidence that trees exist.

Who walked away from whom would be a better question and why.-

If you are referring to the previous conversations we had about my previous theistic beliefs, using your forest analogy; I never saw any trees, I just believed they were there because everybody I believed in and trusted told me the trees were there. So it’s not like I actually walked away from any trees, I just walked away from the BELIEF that there were trees.

Ken


Ken, you answered your own comments and line of questioning...

Kenny wrote:...If we assume God exists and he wants us to know he exists, then I would say he is to blame for whatever non-belief one might have. However if God exists, I would not assume he wants us to know he exists because of how well he has remained hidden; thus there would be no blame because it is all by design.

Ken


You walked away so how can you blame God for your own acts?
-
-
-
Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

Kenny
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Re: Is God responsible?

Postby Kenny » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:50 am

B. W. wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:Atheists, agnostics...

If there was a God, would He be responsible for your lack of faith in Him?

If we assume God exists and he wants us to know he exists, then I would say he is to blame for whatever non-belief one might have. However if God exists, I would not assume he wants us to know he exists because of how well he has remained hidden; thus there would be no blame because it is all by design.

Ken


B. W. wrote: man left his home the forest and traveled to a far away land where there were no forest. If one walked away from the trees in the forest and chose to live in a desert, does the forest still exist?

Yes

B. W. wrote:One can deny the existence of trees only at the expense of ignoring the evidence that trees exist.

Who walked away from whom would be a better question and why.-

If you are referring to the previous conversations we had about my previous theistic beliefs, using your forest analogy; I never saw any trees, I just believed they were there because everybody I believed in and trusted told me the trees were there. So it’s not like I actually walked away from any trees, I just walked away from the BELIEF that there were trees.

Ken


Ken, you answered your own comments and line of questioning...

Kenny wrote:...If we assume God exists and he wants us to know he exists, then I would say he is to blame for whatever non-belief one might have. However if God exists, I would not assume he wants us to know he exists because of how well he has remained hidden; thus there would be no blame because it is all by design.

Ken


You walked away so how can you blame God for your own acts?


B.W. my friend! You seem to be forgetting who you are talking to here.

Ken

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Re: Is God responsible?

Postby B. W. » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:26 am

Kenny wrote:B.W. my friend! You seem to be forgetting who you are talking to here.

Ken


You are too :lol:

Have a great day Ken!
-
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Re: Is God responsible?

Postby Kenny » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:42 am

B. W. wrote:
Kenny wrote:B.W. my friend! You seem to be forgetting who you are talking to here.

Ken


You are too :lol:

Have a great day Ken!

No; I am quite aware I am talking to a Christian. Let me ask you; how can an atheist blame a God he is convinced doesn't exist? How can an atheist walk away from a God he is convinced does not exist? I was speaking hypothetically.

Ken

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Re: Is God responsible?

Postby B. W. » Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:13 pm

Kenny wrote:
B. W. wrote:
Kenny wrote:B.W. my friend! You seem to be forgetting who you are talking to here.

Ken


You are too :lol:

Have a great day Ken!

....Let me ask you; how can an atheist blame a God he is convinced doesn't exist?

How can an atheist walk away from a God he is convinced does not exist?

I was speaking hypothetically.

Ken


Look in the mirror and read your own answer out loud to your self...

In that you will discover the answer.
-
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

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Re: Is God responsible?

Postby Audie » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:20 am

B. W. wrote:
Kenny wrote:
B. W. wrote:
Kenny wrote:B.W. my friend! You seem to be forgetting who you are talking to here.

Ken


You are too :lol:

Have a great day Ken!

....Let me ask you; how can an atheist blame a God he is convinced doesn't exist?

How can an atheist walk away from a God he is convinced does not exist?

I was speaking hypothetically.

Ken


Look in the mirror and read your own answer out loud to your self...

In that you will discover the answer.
-
-
-



Are you saying, then, that ken is not really an atheist?

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Re: Is God responsible?

Postby 1over137 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:43 am

This thread reminded me an old conversation with my old wise friend around 10 years ago when still being unbeliever

Hana: I do not desire to live without God. But it all starts with the big IF. IF he is then.... And besides, how can I reject something which is not being offered to me, or at least, do not see that it is being offered to me? It is like: choose number 11 out of numbers 1 up to 10. 11 is not in the set of offered numbers, so how can you choose that? But anyway, it's just my responsibility and no-one else's for what will happen with me
John: That it is offered to you is undeniable. If you do not see it, that is a different problem and must be addressed separately

Lol.
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold
-- Psalm 18:2

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Re: Is God responsible?

Postby Kenny » Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:14 pm

1over137 wrote:This thread reminded me an old conversation with my old wise friend around 10 years ago when still being unbeliever

Hana: I do not desire to live without God. But it all starts with the big IF. IF he is then.... And besides, how can I reject something which is not being offered to me, or at least, do not see that it is being offered to me? It is like: choose number 11 out of numbers 1 up to 10. 11 is not in the set of offered numbers, so how can you choose that? But anyway, it's just my responsibility and no-one else's for what will happen with me
John: That it is offered to you is undeniable. If you do not see it, that is a different problem and must be addressed separately

Lol.

Who is Hana, and who is John?

Ken


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