Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby PaulSacramento » Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:38 am

Earlier a few pages back, I listed a few reasons, I believe it was to ablecainsbrother. It basically boils down to, the bible describes God as being all good, all knowing, all powerful and present everywhere. But when you look at the Bible, there seem to be specific times when God’s actions contradict those descriptions of him. Basically you can’t be all good, yet do bad things. You can’t be all knowing yet act surprised, or change your mind occasionally etc. etc.

Then there is my personal experiences; back in the day when I was a believer, and I tried to have a relationship with God, knowing what I went through to no avail; if God did exist I believe I would have experienced him. I guess the invisible and the non-existent sorta look alike to me; if something is invisible, to me that is evidence that it doesn't exist.

Ken


This is a very honest post by Ken.
He basically states that he doesn't believe in God because God isn;t that way HE thinks God should be.
In short, IF there was a God, He would be the way Ken things he should be and since there is no evidence of this kind of God ( the God Ken things there should be) then there is no God.

The logic is sound.

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby B. W. » Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:02 am

An atheist sees a Christian woman reading her bible and launches into a debate:

Atheist: Do you really believe the bible is true in everything?

Woman: Yes, I do...

Atheist: How do you know if Jesus really turned water into wine after all you were not there to see it, were you?

Woman: No, but sir, I know my husband was a brazing alcoholic and Jesus turned his liquor into groceries...

That atheist had nothing more to say....

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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby B. W. » Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:04 am

Let's see, bad judgment is a foible of all humanity.

Kenny, have you made bad judgments?

Please don't lie...

You choose everyday and your judgment is faulty. To say otherwise is simply a hubris statement...
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Kenny » Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:33 am

B. W. wrote:Let's see, bad judgment is a foible of all humanity.

Kenny, have you made bad judgments?

Please don't lie...

You choose everyday and your judgment is faulty. To say otherwise is simply a hubris statement...
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So.... What's your point?

Ken

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby RickD » Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:33 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:
Earlier a few pages back, I listed a few reasons, I believe it was to ablecainsbrother. It basically boils down to, the bible describes God as being all good, all knowing, all powerful and present everywhere. But when you look at the Bible, there seem to be specific times when God’s actions contradict those descriptions of him. Basically you can’t be all good, yet do bad things. You can’t be all knowing yet act surprised, or change your mind occasionally etc. etc.

Then there is my personal experiences; back in the day when I was a believer, and I tried to have a relationship with God, knowing what I went through to no avail; if God did exist I believe I would have experienced him. I guess the invisible and the non-existent sorta look alike to me; if something is invisible, to me that is evidence that it doesn't exist.

Ken


This is a very honest post by Ken.
He basically states that he doesn't believe in God because God isn;t that way HE thinks God should be.
In short, IF there was a God, He would be the way Ken things he should be and since there is no evidence of this kind of God ( the God Ken things there should be) then there is no God.

The logic is sound.

I didn't know it worked that way.

Using that logic, my wife doesn't exist. My wife should be submissive, she should cater to my every whim, she should never have pms either. She should work 3 jobs, so I can sit at home and do nothing. This imaginary wife is nothing like I think she should be. That's why I don't believe my wife exists.

I used logic to deduce that my wife doesn't exist!
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Kenny » Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:47 pm

RickD wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Earlier a few pages back, I listed a few reasons, I believe it was to ablecainsbrother. It basically boils down to, the bible describes God as being all good, all knowing, all powerful and present everywhere. But when you look at the Bible, there seem to be specific times when God’s actions contradict those descriptions of him. Basically you can’t be all good, yet do bad things. You can’t be all knowing yet act surprised, or change your mind occasionally etc. etc.

Then there is my personal experiences; back in the day when I was a believer, and I tried to have a relationship with God, knowing what I went through to no avail; if God did exist I believe I would have experienced him. I guess the invisible and the non-existent sorta look alike to me; if something is invisible, to me that is evidence that it doesn't exist.

Ken


This is a very honest post by Ken.
He basically states that he doesn't believe in God because God isn;t that way HE thinks God should be.
In short, IF there was a God, He would be the way Ken things he should be and since there is no evidence of this kind of God ( the God Ken things there should be) then there is no God.

The logic is sound.

I didn't know it worked that way.

Using that logic, my wife doesn't exist. My wife should be submissive, she should cater to my every whim, she should never have pms either. She should work 3 jobs, so I can sit at home and do nothing. This imaginary wife is nothing like I think she should be. That's why I don't believe my wife exists.

I used logic to deduce that my wife doesn't exist!


Actually you’ve used my logic wrong. I said the invisible and the non-existent look alike to me. If it’s invisible, that is evidence that it doesn’t exist.

Now if we take that logic a bit further, the opposite is true as well. So the visible and that which exists look the same, thus since I assume you see your wife everyday, that fact that you are able to see her is evidence of her existence.
Does that make sense?

Ken

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby RickD » Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:15 pm

Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Earlier a few pages back, I listed a few reasons, I believe it was to ablecainsbrother. It basically boils down to, the bible describes God as being all good, all knowing, all powerful and present everywhere. But when you look at the Bible, there seem to be specific times when God’s actions contradict those descriptions of him. Basically you can’t be all good, yet do bad things. You can’t be all knowing yet act surprised, or change your mind occasionally etc. etc.

Then there is my personal experiences; back in the day when I was a believer, and I tried to have a relationship with God, knowing what I went through to no avail; if God did exist I believe I would have experienced him. I guess the invisible and the non-existent sorta look alike to me; if something is invisible, to me that is evidence that it doesn't exist.

Ken


This is a very honest post by Ken.
He basically states that he doesn't believe in God because God isn;t that way HE thinks God should be.
In short, IF there was a God, He would be the way Ken things he should be and since there is no evidence of this kind of God ( the God Ken things there should be) then there is no God.

The logic is sound.

I didn't know it worked that way.

Using that logic, my wife doesn't exist. My wife should be submissive, she should cater to my every whim, she should never have pms either. She should work 3 jobs, so I can sit at home and do nothing. This imaginary wife is nothing like I think she should be. That's why I don't believe my wife exists.

I used logic to deduce that my wife doesn't exist!


Actually you’ve used my logic wrong. I said the invisible and the non-existent look alike to me. If it’s invisible, that is evidence that it doesn’t exist.

Now if we take that logic a bit further, the opposite is true as well. So the visible and that which exists look the same, thus since I assume you see your wife everyday, that fact that you are able to see her is evidence of her existence.
Does that make sense?

Ken

I was referring to what you said about the God of the OT, not being what you think God should be. You said the God of the OT(as you understand Him) isn't described as a God of your imagination, would be.


Ken,

Do you see your brain everyday? Well then, I guess your brain doesn't exist. Kenny is an Abrainist. :mrgreen:
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Kurieuo » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:02 pm

Ken believes, which is why he's been here over the years and tries so hard to debate against it. Sorry to talk of you in third person Kenny, but take for example, how you're 100% convinced the God described in the Old Testament doesn't exist. Why?

Because this God is evil, condones whimsically killing innocent children and women. I agree with Kenny here that his understanding of the God of Israel would certainly not align with my understanding of God. We both know within that God would be good, indeed is good and loving. So any presentation of God that doesn't align with this, most certainly cannot be God.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Kenny » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:09 pm

Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Earlier a few pages back, I listed a few reasons, I believe it was to ablecainsbrother. It basically boils down to, the bible describes God as being all good, all knowing, all powerful and present everywhere. But when you look at the Bible, there seem to be specific times when God’s actions contradict those descriptions of him. Basically you can’t be all good, yet do bad things. You can’t be all knowing yet act surprised, or change your mind occasionally etc. etc.

Then there is my personal experiences; back in the day when I was a believer, and I tried to have a relationship with God, knowing what I went through to no avail; if God did exist I believe I would have experienced him. I guess the invisible and the non-existent sorta look alike to me; if something is invisible, to me that is evidence that it doesn't exist.

Ken


This is a very honest post by Ken.
He basically states that he doesn't believe in God because God isn;t that way HE thinks God should be.
In short, IF there was a God, He would be the way Ken things he should be and since there is no evidence of this kind of God ( the God Ken things there should be) then there is no God.

The logic is sound.

I didn't know it worked that way.

Using that logic, my wife doesn't exist. My wife should be submissive, she should cater to my every whim, she should never have pms either. She should work 3 jobs, so I can sit at home and do nothing. This imaginary wife is nothing like I think she should be. That's why I don't believe my wife exists.

I used logic to deduce that my wife doesn't exist!


Actually you’ve used my logic wrong. I said the invisible and the non-existent look alike to me. If it’s invisible, that is evidence that it doesn’t exist.

Now if we take that logic a bit further, the opposite is true as well. So the visible and that which exists look the same, thus since I assume you see your wife everyday, that fact that you are able to see her is evidence of her existence.
Does that make sense?

Ken


RickD wrote: I was referring to what you said about the God of the OT, not being what you think God should be. You said the God of the OT(as you understand Him) isn't described as a God of your imagination, would be.

Not quite; I didn’t say anything about my imagination, someone else said that; I said (paraphrasing) judging from his actions (according to the Bible) he is not as he is claimed to be (according to the Bible) thus if the bible is wrong about the description of God, that is evidence (along with other stuff) it is wrong about the existence of the God as well.
RickD wrote: Ken,
Do you see your brain everyday? Well then, I guess your brain doesn't exist. Kenny is an Abrainist. :mrgreen:

(LOL)
My brain is not invisible. When I spoke of the invisible, I didn’t literally mean “invisible” I meant unable to detect.


Ken

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby abelcainsbrother » Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:43 pm

Kenny wrote:
Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Earlier a few pages back, I listed a few reasons, I believe it was to ablecainsbrother. It basically boils down to, the bible describes God as being all good, all knowing, all powerful and present everywhere. But when you look at the Bible, there seem to be specific times when God’s actions contradict those descriptions of him. Basically you can’t be all good, yet do bad things. You can’t be all knowing yet act surprised, or change your mind occasionally etc. etc.

Then there is my personal experiences; back in the day when I was a believer, and I tried to have a relationship with God, knowing what I went through to no avail; if God did exist I believe I would have experienced him. I guess the invisible and the non-existent sorta look alike to me; if something is invisible, to me that is evidence that it doesn't exist.

Ken


This is a very honest post by Ken.
He basically states that he doesn't believe in God because God isn;t that way HE thinks God should be.
In short, IF there was a God, He would be the way Ken things he should be and since there is no evidence of this kind of God ( the God Ken things there should be) then there is no God.

The logic is sound.

I didn't know it worked that way.

Using that logic, my wife doesn't exist. My wife should be submissive, she should cater to my every whim, she should never have pms either. She should work 3 jobs, so I can sit at home and do nothing. This imaginary wife is nothing like I think she should be. That's why I don't believe my wife exists.

I used logic to deduce that my wife doesn't exist!


Actually you’ve used my logic wrong. I said the invisible and the non-existent look alike to me. If it’s invisible, that is evidence that it doesn’t exist.

Now if we take that logic a bit further, the opposite is true as well. So the visible and that which exists look the same, thus since I assume you see your wife everyday, that fact that you are able to see her is evidence of her existence.
Does that make sense?

Ken


RickD wrote: I was referring to what you said about the God of the OT, not being what you think God should be. You said the God of the OT(as you understand Him) isn't described as a God of your imagination, would be.

Not quite; I didn’t say anything about my imagination, someone else said that; I said (paraphrasing) judging from his actions (according to the Bible) he is not as he is claimed to be (according to the Bible) thus if the bible is wrong about the description of God, that is evidence (along with other stuff) it is wrong about the existence of the God as well.
RickD wrote: Ken,
Do you see your brain everyday? Well then, I guess your brain doesn't exist. Kenny is an Abrainist. :mrgreen:

(LOL)
My brain is not invisible. When I spoke of the invisible, I didn’t literally mean “invisible” I meant unable to detect.


Ken


But everybody who believes in God knows he cannot be detected the way you think he should be. God is detected by faith,no faith? No detection. The bible tells us this.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby RickD » Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:44 pm

RickD wrote:
I was referring to what you said about the God of the OT, not being what you think God should be. You said the God of the OT(as you understand Him) isn't described as a God of your imagination, would be.

Kenny wrote:
Not quite; I didn’t say anything about my imagination, someone else said that; I said (paraphrasing) judging from his actions (according to the Bible) he is not as he is claimed to be (according to the Bible) thus if the bible is wrong about the description of God, that is evidence (along with other stuff) it is wrong about the existence of the God as well.

That's why faulty logic leads to faulty conclusions. You think wrongly, that God isn't acting the way God would act in the OT, if He were God.

But of course if you were really open to seeing that you could be wrong, and God acted exactly the way He should've acted, you would've taken me up on my offer, to give you a book for free, that helps people see that God is not a moral monster.

Nobody can make you see Kenny. You need to come to the realization that you need to be open to see who God is in reality. Not who he is in your mind.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Kenny » Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:32 pm

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
This is a very honest post by Ken.
He basically states that he doesn't believe in God because God isn;t that way HE thinks God should be.
In short, IF there was a God, He would be the way Ken things he should be and since there is no evidence of this kind of God ( the God Ken things there should be) then there is no God.

The logic is sound.

I didn't know it worked that way.

Using that logic, my wife doesn't exist. My wife should be submissive, she should cater to my every whim, she should never have pms either. She should work 3 jobs, so I can sit at home and do nothing. This imaginary wife is nothing like I think she should be. That's why I don't believe my wife exists.

I used logic to deduce that my wife doesn't exist!


Actually you’ve used my logic wrong. I said the invisible and the non-existent look alike to me. If it’s invisible, that is evidence that it doesn’t exist.

Now if we take that logic a bit further, the opposite is true as well. So the visible and that which exists look the same, thus since I assume you see your wife everyday, that fact that you are able to see her is evidence of her existence.
Does that make sense?

Ken


RickD wrote: I was referring to what you said about the God of the OT, not being what you think God should be. You said the God of the OT(as you understand Him) isn't described as a God of your imagination, would be.

Not quite; I didn’t say anything about my imagination, someone else said that; I said (paraphrasing) judging from his actions (according to the Bible) he is not as he is claimed to be (according to the Bible) thus if the bible is wrong about the description of God, that is evidence (along with other stuff) it is wrong about the existence of the God as well.
RickD wrote: Ken,
Do you see your brain everyday? Well then, I guess your brain doesn't exist. Kenny is an Abrainist. :mrgreen:

(LOL)
My brain is not invisible. When I spoke of the invisible, I didn’t literally mean “invisible” I meant unable to detect.


Ken


But everybody who believes in God knows he cannot be detected the way you think he should be. God is detected by faith,no faith? No detection. The bible tells us this.


Back when I had faith, I couldn't detect him then either.

K

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Kenny » Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:38 pm

RickD wrote:
RickD wrote:
I was referring to what you said about the God of the OT, not being what you think God should be. You said the God of the OT(as you understand Him) isn't described as a God of your imagination, would be.

Kenny wrote:
Not quite; I didn’t say anything about my imagination, someone else said that; I said (paraphrasing) judging from his actions (according to the Bible) he is not as he is claimed to be (according to the Bible) thus if the bible is wrong about the description of God, that is evidence (along with other stuff) it is wrong about the existence of the God as well.

That's why faulty logic leads to faulty conclusions. You think wrongly, that God isn't acting the way God would act in the OT, if He were God.

But of course if you were really open to seeing that you could be wrong, and God acted exactly the way He should've acted, you would've taken me up on my offer, to give you a book for free, that helps people see that God is not a moral monster.

Nobody can make you see Kenny. You need to come to the realization that you need to be open to see who God is in reality. Not who he is in your mind.


I never said God was a moral monster. I always believed the moral code accepted by the men who wrote the scriptures is not the same moral code accepted by the people today. So when these men wrote of a God to worship, this God reflected the moral code of that day, not the moral code of today.

Ken

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby PaulSacramento » Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:10 am

RickD wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Earlier a few pages back, I listed a few reasons, I believe it was to ablecainsbrother. It basically boils down to, the bible describes God as being all good, all knowing, all powerful and present everywhere. But when you look at the Bible, there seem to be specific times when God’s actions contradict those descriptions of him. Basically you can’t be all good, yet do bad things. You can’t be all knowing yet act surprised, or change your mind occasionally etc. etc.

Then there is my personal experiences; back in the day when I was a believer, and I tried to have a relationship with God, knowing what I went through to no avail; if God did exist I believe I would have experienced him. I guess the invisible and the non-existent sorta look alike to me; if something is invisible, to me that is evidence that it doesn't exist.

Ken


This is a very honest post by Ken.
He basically states that he doesn't believe in God because God isn;t that way HE thinks God should be.
In short, IF there was a God, He would be the way Ken things he should be and since there is no evidence of this kind of God ( the God Ken things there should be) then there is no God.

The logic is sound.

I didn't know it worked that way.

Using that logic, my wife doesn't exist. My wife should be submissive, she should cater to my every whim, she should never have pms either. She should work 3 jobs, so I can sit at home and do nothing. This imaginary wife is nothing like I think she should be. That's why I don't believe my wife exists.

I used logic to deduce that my wife doesn't exist!



How many times have I stated that Atheist create the God they can disprove?
Ken's statement is proof of that.

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Kenny » Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:39 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
RickD wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Earlier a few pages back, I listed a few reasons, I believe it was to ablecainsbrother. It basically boils down to, the bible describes God as being all good, all knowing, all powerful and present everywhere. But when you look at the Bible, there seem to be specific times when God’s actions contradict those descriptions of him. Basically you can’t be all good, yet do bad things. You can’t be all knowing yet act surprised, or change your mind occasionally etc. etc.

Then there is my personal experiences; back in the day when I was a believer, and I tried to have a relationship with God, knowing what I went through to no avail; if God did exist I believe I would have experienced him. I guess the invisible and the non-existent sorta look alike to me; if something is invisible, to me that is evidence that it doesn't exist.

Ken


This is a very honest post by Ken.
He basically states that he doesn't believe in God because God isn;t that way HE thinks God should be.
In short, IF there was a God, He would be the way Ken things he should be and since there is no evidence of this kind of God ( the God Ken things there should be) then there is no God.

The logic is sound.

I didn't know it worked that way.

Using that logic, my wife doesn't exist. My wife should be submissive, she should cater to my every whim, she should never have pms either. She should work 3 jobs, so I can sit at home and do nothing. This imaginary wife is nothing like I think she should be. That's why I don't believe my wife exists.

I used logic to deduce that my wife doesn't exist!



How many times have I stated that Atheist create the God they can disprove?
Ken's statement is proof of that.


I’ve never created a God, that’s what believers do. When I speak of God, I speak from what various theists have said, and are saying about God. So if you think I speak of a false concept of God, it is because there are a lot of theists out there who describe God this way.

Ken


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