Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
Kenny
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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Kenny » Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:21 am

RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:Of course we all choose to believe what we believe.

Anyone who says differently makes no sense.

I choose to believe God exists.

Kenny chooses to believe God doesn't exist.

My choosing to believe God exists, doesn't make God exist, just like Kenny choosing to believe God doesn't exist, doesn't mean that God doesn't exist, just because Kenny believes He doesn't exist.

And just because someone chooses to believe he can fly like a bird, that doesn't mean he can.

What do you think of the point I made?

Ken


Are you talking about this point?
In the context of this conversation, I am no more able to choose to believe what is required to be Christian, than you can choose to believe you can fly like a bird.


I'm not sure I get the comparison. I don't choose to believe I can fly like a bird, because I don't have wings.


But if you wanted to (say if a billion dollars were on the line) could you choose to believe even though you don't have wings you could fly?

Ken

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Audie » Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:31 am

Kenny wrote:
Audie wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Yeah.... and some of them are Atheists too!

Yes, let's not forget those Pirahã people. :pound:

With a capital "P"? Oh yeah don't read too much in to it (LOL)

K


Prrhaps you could use a little nap?


No sense of humor huh?



Oh. Thought it was your deficiency.

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RickD
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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby RickD » Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:38 am

Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:Of course we all choose to believe what we believe.

Anyone who says differently makes no sense.

I choose to believe God exists.

Kenny chooses to believe God doesn't exist.

My choosing to believe God exists, doesn't make God exist, just like Kenny choosing to believe God doesn't exist, doesn't mean that God doesn't exist, just because Kenny believes He doesn't exist.

And just because someone chooses to believe he can fly like a bird, that doesn't mean he can.

What do you think of the point I made?

Ken


Are you talking about this point?
In the context of this conversation, I am no more able to choose to believe what is required to be Christian, than you can choose to believe you can fly like a bird.


I'm not sure I get the comparison. I don't choose to believe I can fly like a bird, because I don't have wings.


But if you wanted to (say if a billion dollars were on the line) could you choose to believe even though you don't have wings you could fly?

Ken

For a billion dollars, do I actually have to fly? Or do I just have to choose to believe I can fly?
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Kenny
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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Kenny » Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:43 am

RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:Of course we all choose to believe what we believe.

Anyone who says differently makes no sense.

I choose to believe God exists.

Kenny chooses to believe God doesn't exist.

My choosing to believe God exists, doesn't make God exist, just like Kenny choosing to believe God doesn't exist, doesn't mean that God doesn't exist, just because Kenny believes He doesn't exist.

And just because someone chooses to believe he can fly like a bird, that doesn't mean he can.

What do you think of the point I made?

Ken


Are you talking about this point?
In the context of this conversation, I am no more able to choose to believe what is required to be Christian, than you can choose to believe you can fly like a bird.


I'm not sure I get the comparison. I don't choose to believe I can fly like a bird, because I don't have wings.


But if you wanted to (say if a billion dollars were on the line) could you choose to believe even though you don't have wings you could fly?

Ken

For a billion dollars, do I actually have to fly? Or do I just have to choose to believe I can fly?

You have to be 100' percent convinced you could fly

K

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RickD
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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby RickD » Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:48 am

Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:What do you think of the point I made?

Ken


Are you talking about this point?
In the context of this conversation, I am no more able to choose to believe what is required to be Christian, than you can choose to believe you can fly like a bird.


I'm not sure I get the comparison. I don't choose to believe I can fly like a bird, because I don't have wings.


But if you wanted to (say if a billion dollars were on the line) could you choose to believe even though you don't have wings you could fly?

Ken

For a billion dollars, do I actually have to fly? Or do I just have to choose to believe I can fly?

You have to be 100' percent convinced you could fly

K

I'm pretty sure that I can find a way to brainwash convince myself I can fly, if I can have one billion dollars. If Benny Hinn can convince people that he can heal people for millions of dollars, how difficult can it be to think I can fly?
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Kenny
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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Kenny » Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:08 pm

RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
Are you talking about this point?


I'm not sure I get the comparison. I don't choose to believe I can fly like a bird, because I don't have wings.


But if you wanted to (say if a billion dollars were on the line) could you choose to believe even though you don't have wings you could fly?

Ken

For a billion dollars, do I actually have to fly? Or do I just have to choose to believe I can fly?

You have to be 100' percent convinced you could fly

K

I'm pretty sure that I can find a way to brainwash convince myself I can fly, if I can have one billion dollars.


I find this difficult to believe, I think at the end of the day you would know you were lying just to get the money. But assuming you are capable of this, I am not. I could no more choose to believe the stories of the Bible than I could choose to believe I could fly

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RickD
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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby RickD » Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:12 pm

Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
But if you wanted to (say if a billion dollars were on the line) could you choose to believe even though you don't have wings you could fly?

Ken

For a billion dollars, do I actually have to fly? Or do I just have to choose to believe I can fly?

You have to be 100' percent convinced you could fly

K

I'm pretty sure that I can find a way to brainwash convince myself I can fly, if I can have one billion dollars.


I find this difficult to believe, I think at the end of the day you would know you were lying just to get the money. But assuming you are capable of this, I am not. I could no more choose to believe the stories of the Bible than I could choose to believe I could fly

Regardless,

How does that refute the idea that we choose what we believe?

You just choose to believe that God doesn't exist, right?
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Kenny
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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Kenny » Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:25 pm

RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:For a billion dollars, do I actually have to fly? Or do I just have to choose to believe I can fly?

You have to be 100' percent convinced you could fly

K

I'm pretty sure that I can find a way to brainwash convince myself I can fly, if I can have one billion dollars.


I find this difficult to believe, I think at the end of the day you would know you were lying just to get the money. But assuming you are capable of this, I am not. I could no more choose to believe the stories of the Bible than I could choose to believe I could fly

Regardless,

How does that refute the idea that we choose what we believe?

You just choose to believe that God doesn't exist, right?

No. I no more choose to not believe in God than I choose to believe I am unable to fly like a bird. Again, belief happens after reason and logic demands it, never before.
Reason and logic demands I believe what I believe, not choice.

Ken

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RickD
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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby RickD » Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:37 pm

Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:You have to be 100' percent convinced you could fly

K

I'm pretty sure that I can find a way to brainwash convince myself I can fly, if I can have one billion dollars.


I find this difficult to believe, I think at the end of the day you would know you were lying just to get the money. But assuming you are capable of this, I am not. I could no more choose to believe the stories of the Bible than I could choose to believe I could fly

Regardless,

How does that refute the idea that we choose what we believe?

You just choose to believe that God doesn't exist, right?

No. I no more choose to not believe in God than I choose to believe I am unable to fly like a bird. Again, belief happens after reason and logic demands it, never before.
Reason and logic demands I believe what I believe, not choice.

Ken

Kenny,

You're missing the point. You have thought about the idea that God exists. You have looked at different arguments from both sides. And in your mind, you think the arguments for God not existing, outweigh the arguments for His existence. Therefore, you choose to believe God doesn't exist.

Whatever we believe about anything, we choose to believe that, as opposed to something else.

I choose to believe my wife loves me, as opposed to choosing to believe she doesn't.

I choose to believe that if I go to the beach on a summer day in Florida, without sunscreen, I will get a sunburn.

I choose to believe God exists.

You do understand that, don't you?
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Kenny
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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Kenny » Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:12 pm

Audie wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Audie wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:Yes, let's not forget those Pirahã people. :pound:

With a capital "P"? Oh yeah don't read too much in to it (LOL)

K


Prrhaps you could use a little nap?


No sense of humor huh?



Oh. Thought it was your deficiency.


No; my deficiency is being obtuse. Because they don't allow no more than one deficiency per member, someone else has to be the one without a sense of humor.

Ken

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RickD
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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby RickD » Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:13 pm

Kenny wrote:
Audie wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Audie wrote:
Kenny wrote:With a capital "P"? Oh yeah don't read too much in to it (LOL)

K


Prrhaps you could use a little nap?


No sense of humor huh?



Oh. Thought it was your deficiency.


No; my deficiency is being obtuse. Because they don't allow no more than one deficiency per member, someone else has to be the one without a sense of humor.

Ken

:pound:

No Kenny. You do have a sense of humor. :clap:
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Kenny
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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Kenny » Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:14 pm

RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:I'm pretty sure that I can find a way to brainwash convince myself I can fly, if I can have one billion dollars.


I find this difficult to believe, I think at the end of the day you would know you were lying just to get the money. But assuming you are capable of this, I am not. I could no more choose to believe the stories of the Bible than I could choose to believe I could fly

Regardless,

How does that refute the idea that we choose what we believe?

You just choose to believe that God doesn't exist, right?

No. I no more choose to not believe in God than I choose to believe I am unable to fly like a bird. Again, belief happens after reason and logic demands it, never before.
Reason and logic demands I believe what I believe, not choice.

Ken

Kenny,

You're missing the point. You have thought about the idea that God exists. You have looked at different arguments from both sides. And in your mind, you think the arguments for God not existing, outweigh the arguments for His existence. Therefore, you choose to believe God doesn't exist.

Whatever we believe about anything, we choose to believe that, as opposed to something else.

I choose to believe my wife loves me, as opposed to choosing to believe she doesn't.

I choose to believe that if I go to the beach on a summer day in Florida, without sunscreen, I will get a sunburn.

I choose to believe God exists.

You do understand that, don't you?

I understand what you are saying, I just don't agree with it.

Ken

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RickD
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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby RickD » Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:15 pm

Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
I find this difficult to believe, I think at the end of the day you would know you were lying just to get the money. But assuming you are capable of this, I am not. I could no more choose to believe the stories of the Bible than I could choose to believe I could fly

Regardless,

How does that refute the idea that we choose what we believe?

You just choose to believe that God doesn't exist, right?

No. I no more choose to not believe in God than I choose to believe I am unable to fly like a bird. Again, belief happens after reason and logic demands it, never before.
Reason and logic demands I believe what I believe, not choice.

Ken

Kenny,

You're missing the point. You have thought about the idea that God exists. You have looked at different arguments from both sides. And in your mind, you think the arguments for God not existing, outweigh the arguments for His existence. Therefore, you choose to believe God doesn't exist.

Whatever we believe about anything, we choose to believe that, as opposed to something else.

I choose to believe my wife loves me, as opposed to choosing to believe she doesn't.

I choose to believe that if I go to the beach on a summer day in Florida, without sunscreen, I will get a sunburn.

I choose to believe God exists.

You do understand that, don't you?

I understand what you are saying, I just don't agree with it.

Ken


What in what I said there, could you possibly disagree with?
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Kenny
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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Kenny » Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:28 pm

RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
RickD wrote:Regardless,

How does that refute the idea that we choose what we believe?

You just choose to believe that God doesn't exist, right?

No. I no more choose to not believe in God than I choose to believe I am unable to fly like a bird. Again, belief happens after reason and logic demands it, never before.
Reason and logic demands I believe what I believe, not choice.

Ken

Kenny,

You're missing the point. You have thought about the idea that God exists. You have looked at different arguments from both sides. And in your mind, you think the arguments for God not existing, outweigh the arguments for His existence. Therefore, you choose to believe God doesn't exist.

Whatever we believe about anything, we choose to believe that, as opposed to something else.

I choose to believe my wife loves me, as opposed to choosing to believe she doesn't.

I choose to believe that if I go to the beach on a summer day in Florida, without sunscreen, I will get a sunburn.

I choose to believe God exists.

You do understand that, don't you?

I understand what you are saying, I just don't agree with it.

Ken


What in what I said there, could you possibly disagree with?

According to your what you said, if a person had enough money, they could pay you to commit suicide; all they would have to do is pay you a billion dollars to convince yourself that you could fly like a bird, then pay you another billion to demonstrate it by jumping off the Golden Gate bridge. It doesn't work that way for me because reason and logic would not allow me to believe something I know is impossible; not even for all the money in the world, but evidently it does for you; right?

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Audie » Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:08 pm

Kenny wrote:
Audie wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Audie wrote:
Kenny wrote:With a capital "P"? Oh yeah don't read too much in to it (LOL)

K


Prrhaps you could use a little nap?


No sense of humor huh?



Oh. Thought it was your deficiency.


No; my deficiency is being obtuse. Because they don't allow no more than one deficiency per member, someone else has to be the one without a sense of humor.

Ken


Not me either. My humour may be anhydrous, but it is detectable with advanced scientific instruments.


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