Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
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Kurieuo
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Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Kurieuo » Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:36 pm

I mentioned several years ago, that science provides evidence for there being no real Atheists. In fact, my main line of response against Atheism being accepted as the default position one begins life with, and really by that Antony Flew only ever meant a weak form of Atheism more resembling Agnosticism, nonetheless I believe Theism is the default position because such is what we're naturally wired with and is exhibited as we develop from babes into children.

This isn't my opinion, but rather numerous scientific studies demonstrate such is the case.

I know many who consider themselves Atheist, who say things like "God was never even registered in my mind" and so on and so forth, while such people might protest otherwise, I seriously believe there no real Atheists in the world on an innate human and subconscious level. Belief in God is just built into us, such that we must willfully turn away. Rather, people are, more correctly (I think), Apatheists or anti-Theist/God trying to convince themselves God doesn't exist.

Here is a YouTube video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ii-bsrHB0o
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Re: Belief in God is Delusional, right?

Postby crochet1949 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:25 pm

Belief in God is very Real --- because God is very real. No delusion at all.

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby edwardmurphy » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:07 pm

We're wired to be uncomfortable with uncertainty. We want answers, so we find them. Sometimes that's an adaptive trait. Sometimes it isn't. Whether or not we believe something has no bearing on reality.

BTW, which one of you clowns made me an anti-member?
If you're accustomed to privilege equality may feel like oppression.

Something for us all to consider. (Thanks, Paul)

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Nessa » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:31 pm

edwardmurphy wrote:
BTW, which one of you clowns made me an anti-member?


Everyone goes through being an anti-member if they are here long enough..

So dont go feeling too special just yet ;)

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Kurieuo » Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:01 am

edwardmurphy wrote:We're wired to be uncomfortable with uncertainty. We want answers, so we find them. Sometimes that's an adaptive trait. Sometimes it isn't. Whether or not we believe something has no bearing on reality.

BTW, which one of you clowns made me an anti-member?

You're right that this isn't an argument for the reality of God, although it is something we would expect. The general rebuttal against Freud's God illusion/delusion argument, was that religious people might be such but it has no bearing on whether God is true. So, in all fairness, I see that rebuttal still holds vice-versa if the table is turned around.

Anti-Member happens when you hit 666 posts for a bit. ;)
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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby edwardmurphy » Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:29 am

Kurieuo wrote:Anti-Member happens when you hit 666 posts for a bit. ;)


Huh. Ok, that's kind of funny.
If you're accustomed to privilege equality may feel like oppression.

Something for us all to consider. (Thanks, Paul)

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby patrick » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:37 pm

Hmm. Well for me this gets at the heart of why I think dismissing something because it's psychological to be just silly.

And it reminds me of the argument you'd made a while back with Tolkein regarding "myths" or psychic narratives. It's possible all these are just psychological, but equally that it's much more than that, and a careful study of these narratives (as the late Dr. Jung dedicated his life to doing) reveals they are at the very least more than just historical artifacts and shed light on a deep aspect of the human condition.

Unfortunately, I think this is also why many people nowadays adhere to a religion simply because of how it makes them feel, because of the real void it fills in the mind, even when it doesn't really make sense to themselves intellectually. Perhaps not so dangerous with Christianity, but plainly so with Islamic extremism.

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Kenny » Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:01 pm

Kurieuo wrote:I mentioned several years ago, that science provides evidence for there being no real Atheists. In fact, my main line of response against Atheism being accepted as the default position one begins life with, and really by that Antony Flew only ever meant a weak form of Atheism more resembling Agnosticism, nonetheless I believe Theism is the default position because such is what we're naturally wired with and is exhibited as we develop from babes into children.

This isn't my opinion, but rather numerous scientific studies demonstrate such is the case.


If scientific studies demonstrate humans are hardwired to believe in God, why do you suppose science is the one field of study that has more Atheists in it than anything else?

Ken

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Kurieuo » Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:31 pm

Kenny wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:I mentioned several years ago, that science provides evidence for there being no real Atheists. In fact, my main line of response against Atheism being accepted as the default position one begins life with, and really by that Antony Flew only ever meant a weak form of Atheism more resembling Agnosticism, nonetheless I believe Theism is the default position because such is what we're naturally wired with and is exhibited as we develop from babes into children.

This isn't my opinion, but rather numerous scientific studies demonstrate such is the case.


If scientific studies demonstrate humans are hardwired to believe in God, why do you suppose science is the one field of study that has more Atheists in it than anything else?

There are no true Atheists, that's what scientific studies suggests, and you are free to look up the ones presented in the YouTube video if you find this challenging to your lack of belief. Belief in God, however, appears so rooted in our nature, studies highly support that it is something people resist, move away from, try to avoid and bury.

Re: "scientists", you should look deeper into the myth that perpetrated more scientists are Atheists. I'd suggest you look into the polls, as speaking of the US, more than 50% actually believe in God or some higher power according to older Pew surveying, the rest is split between those who identify as Atheists, others Agnostics or withholding an opinion.

Recent more worldwide surveying show that in places like Hong Kong and Taiwan, the trend of the percentage of [religious] belief in God being higher in general public vs scientists -- it is the reverse to the US. That is, scientists are more likely to [be religious] believe in God than the general public in such places. In Hong Kong, "it's striking that approximately twice as many 'convinced atheists' exist in the general population of Hong Kong, for example, (55 percent) compared with the scientific community in this region (26 percent)."
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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Kenny » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:04 pm

Kenny wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:I mentioned several years ago, that science provides evidence for there being no real Atheists. In fact, my main line of response against Atheism being accepted as the default position one begins life with, and really by that Antony Flew only ever meant a weak form of Atheism more resembling Agnosticism, nonetheless I believe Theism is the default position because such is what we're naturally wired with and is exhibited as we develop from babes into children.

This isn't my opinion, but rather numerous scientific studies demonstrate such is the case.


If scientific studies demonstrate humans are hardwired to believe in God, why do you suppose science is the one field of study that has more Atheists in it than anything else?


Kurieuo wrote: There are no true Atheists, that's what scientific studies suggests, and you are free to look up the ones presented in the YouTube video if you find this challenging to your lack of belief.

Hey! If it’s on youtube, it must be true right? (LOL)

Kurieuo wrote: Belief in God, however, appears so rooted in our nature, studies highly support that it is something people resist, move away from, try to avoid and bury.

Re: "scientists", you should look deeper into the myth that perpetrated more scientists are Atheists. I'd suggest you look into the polls, as speaking of the US, more than 50% actually believe in God or some higher power according to older Pew surveying, the rest is split between those who identify as Atheists, others Agnostics or withholding an opinion.

Do you agree Scientists are more likely to be Atheist than the General population? If so, why would they claim mankind is hardwired to believe in God? That is the point I was trying to make.

Kurieuo wrote: Recent more worldwide surveying show that in places like Hong Kong and Taiwan, the trend of the percentage of belief in God being higher in general public vs scientists -- it is the reverse to the US. That is, scientists are more likely to believe in God than the general public in such places. In Hong Kong, "it's striking that approximately twice as many 'convinced atheists' exist in the general population of Hong Kong, for example, (55 percent) compared with the scientific community in this region (26 percent)."
[/quote]
The link points out countries like Taiwan or Hong Kong as being more religious than atheist. (Note they say RELIGIOUS not theist) but what they don’t mention is those countries have large populations of non-theistic religions like Buddism, or Taoism; religions without a Deity.

Yeah; I know, I know you said believe in God when referring to the article, but the article did not say that; the article was very careful to NOT say “believe in God”, instead they said “religious”.

Kinda makes you wonder how many of those "religious" people referred to in the Article actually believe in God!

Ken

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Kurieuo » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:34 pm

Kenny wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:I mentioned several years ago, that science provides evidence for there being no real Atheists. In fact, my main line of response against Atheism being accepted as the default position one begins life with, and really by that Antony Flew only ever meant a weak form of Atheism more resembling Agnosticism, nonetheless I believe Theism is the default position because such is what we're naturally wired with and is exhibited as we develop from babes into children.

This isn't my opinion, but rather numerous scientific studies demonstrate such is the case.


If scientific studies demonstrate humans are hardwired to believe in God, why do you suppose science is the one field of study that has more Atheists in it than anything else?


Kurieuo wrote: There are no true Atheists, that's what scientific studies suggests, and you are free to look up the ones presented in the YouTube video if you find this challenging to your lack of belief.

Hey! If it’s on youtube, it must be true right? (LOL)

y:-/ The delivery method matters little to the content itself. You can freely ignore the scientific papers shown, names mentioned of those leading the studies and the like due to the "YouTube factor", but I sincerely doubt they are fabricated.

Kenny wrote:
Kurieuo wrote: Belief in God, however, appears so rooted in our nature, studies highly support that it is something people resist, move away from, try to avoid and bury.

Re: "scientists", you should look deeper into the myth that perpetrated more scientists are Atheists. I'd suggest you look into the polls, as speaking of the US, more than 50% actually believe in God or some higher power according to older Pew surveying, the rest is split between those who identify as Atheists, others Agnostics or withholding an opinion.

Do you agree Scientists are more likely to be Atheist than the General population? If so, why would they claim mankind is hardwired to believe in God? That is the point I was trying to make.

Kurieuo wrote: Recent more worldwide surveying show that in places like Hong Kong and Taiwan, the trend of the percentage of belief in God being higher in general public vs scientists -- it is the reverse to the US. That is, scientists are more likely to believe in God than the general public in such places. In Hong Kong, "it's striking that approximately twice as many 'convinced atheists' exist in the general population of Hong Kong, for example, (55 percent) compared with the scientific community in this region (26 percent)."

The link points out countries like Taiwan or Hong Kong as being more religious than atheist. (Note they say RELIGIOUS not theist) but what they don’t mention is those countries have large populations of non-theistic religions like Buddism, or Taoism; religions without a Deity.

Yeah; I know, I know you said believe in God when referring to the article, but the article did not say that; the article was very careful to NOT say “believe in God”, instead they said “religious”.

Kinda makes you wonder how many of those "religious" people referred to in the Article actually believe in God!

I, and my original post, was ultimately interested in the Atheist question here.

In my previous post to you I quoted, it's striking that approximately twice as many 'convinced atheists' exist in the general population of Hong Kong, for example, (55 percent) compared with the scientific community in this region (26 percent)." This is all about Atheists.

To save debating, even if it were given more scientists identified as Atheist, such matters little to the original post and studies and argument being presented in that YouTube video.
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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby edwardmurphy » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:57 am

There's no need to capitalize "atheist." We don't worship Ath.
If you're accustomed to privilege equality may feel like oppression.

Something for us all to consider. (Thanks, Paul)

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby crochet1949 » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:40 pm

Since God is a real entity -- belief in Him is neither delusional or a non-belief. We can learn all about Him in His Word /Bible. Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God .... created....."

A non-belief would suggest that there is nothing To believe in when God is being talked about. But He is alive and well.

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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby RickD » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:13 pm

edwardmurphy wrote:There's no need to capitalize "atheist." We don't worship Ath.

You better be thankful Ed. Without God, there'd be no atheists.
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Re: Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

Postby Kurieuo » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:27 am

edwardmurphy wrote:There's no need to capitalize "atheist." We don't worship Ath.

There's also no need to capitalise 'T' in Theist either. Yet, people often capitalise positions, I also feel it helps with readability. Capitalisation is also a sign of respect, and while I disagree, I nonetheless wish to remain respectful to my Atheist friends. It'd seem disrespectful to capitalise my own position of Theism or Christianity, and then use "atheists/ism".

For you though, if I talk with you, I'll respectfully using lowercase 'atheist'. I don't want to antagonise or cause you unnecessary grief. :P
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