Is Atheism a Belief System?

[Byblos]

Let's assume he did do that. Some believed him, many didn't. Now what?

Whether people believe him or not, the creator explaining how he created everything would still be extraordinary evidence IMO.

But he did do just that. So how come you don't believe Him then?

Because Kenny demands that God does it Kenny's way. Kenny won't recognize God unless it's on Kenny's terms.

And how many of ya xtians is any different?

Seriously Audie, what does that even mean?

[Audie]

Whether people believe him or not, the creator explaining how he created everything would still be extraordinary evidence IMO.

But he did do just that. So how come you don't believe Him then?

Because Kenny demands that God does it Kenny's way. Kenny won't recognize God unless it's on Kenny's terms.

And how many of ya xtians is any different?

Seriously Audie, what does that even mean?

Kenny demands that God does it Kenny's way.

What do you suppose that means?
Does it leave off '.....or he wont believe in him."

Perhaps it means Ken wont believe in the kind of god that wont swallow himself.

What kind(s) of gods might there be that you wont believe in?

The kind that did send a world wide flood that drowned all but a boat load,
or, the kind that did not? Which one did he say he did? Which interpretation do you believe?

Or as bybs would put it, So how come you don't believe Him then?

[Byblos]

But he did do just that. So how come you don't believe Him then?

Because Kenny demands that God does it Kenny's way. Kenny won't recognize God unless it's on Kenny's terms.

And how many of ya xtians is any different?

Seriously Audie, what does that even mean?

Kenny demands that God does it Kenny's way.

What do you suppose that means?
Does it leave off '.....or he wont believe in him."

Perhaps it means Ken wont believe in the kind of god that wont swallow himself.

What kind(s) of gods might there be that you wont believe in?

The kind that did send a world wide flood that drowned all but a boat load,
or, the kind that did not? Which one did he say he did? Which interpretation do you believe?

Or as bybs would put it, So how come you don't believe Him then?

I guess I asked for it.

I mean that in the most complimentary way Audie, your brain is like a rocketship travelling at near speed of light as compared to my bike-peddling brain. I'm sure you have a point, I just haven't caught up yet.

[Audie]

Because Kenny demands that God does it Kenny's way. Kenny won't recognize God unless it's on Kenny's terms.

And how many of ya xtians is any different?

Seriously Audie, what does that even mean?

Kenny demands that God does it Kenny's way.

What do you suppose that means?
Does it leave off '.....or he wont believe in him."

Perhaps it means Ken wont believe in the kind of god that wont swallow himself.

What kind(s) of gods might there be that you wont believe in?

The kind that did send a world wide flood that drowned all but a boat load,
or, the kind that did not? Which one did he say he did? Which interpretation do you believe?

Or as bybs would put it, So how come you don't believe Him then?

I guess I asked for it.

I mean that in the most complimentary way Audie, your brain is like a rocketship travelling at near speed of light as compared to my bike-peddling brain. I'm sure you have a point, I just haven't caught up yet.

No, its not speed as such, it is the vector.

I am kind of in my own universe, if nobody noticed.

[Kurieuo]

And how many of ya xtians is any different?

Seriously Audie, what does that even mean?

Kenny demands that God does it Kenny's way.

What do you suppose that means?
Does it leave off '.....or he wont believe in him."

Perhaps it means Ken wont believe in the kind of god that wont swallow himself.

What kind(s) of gods might there be that you wont believe in?

The kind that did send a world wide flood that drowned all but a boat load,
or, the kind that did not? Which one did he say he did? Which interpretation do you believe?

Or as bybs would put it, So how come you don't believe Him then?

I guess I asked for it.

I mean that in the most complimentary way Audie, your brain is like a rocketship travelling at near speed of light as compared to my bike-peddling brain. I'm sure you have a point, I just haven't caught up yet.

No, its not speed as such, it is the vector.

I am kind of in my own universe, if nobody noticed.

Audie thinks she's a cowgirl, what more needs saying?

[Kenny]

Such would be an area for literary criticism. You know, just because the words weren't penned by Christ, doesn't mean it's right to simply discard any and all credibility. Research into the manuscripts, other sources, archaeology and the like all form an important part. Scholarly papers are submitted to journals, arguments made, all within a historical critical manner as opposed to accepting such as some divinely inspired text.

There would be zero scholars of any respect or credibility who would just simply walk away saying Jesus didn't exist, or said nothing of the words attributed to him in such texts. To know the reasons why, and even build a position of real substance for yourself, it'd require a trip into literary criticism.

So for the sake of conversation; let's say the men who wrote the New Testament were 100% accurate in the message Jesus gave. How do you know Jesus was actually telling the truth? Isn't it just a matter of faith?

Two questions there. To your first, we (people) don't really know Jesus was telling the truth.

However, people seem reluctant to let go of this guy called Jesus, seem to have a great respect for him, no matter whether they be Christian, non-Christian, Atheist, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim or the like.

Yeah its one thing to admire and respect a leader with revolutionary ideas that helped change many of the moral ideas people had during that time, but its quite another to call him God.

Take your first course of action here, it wasn't to take Jesus to task for saying such, but rather you dismissed whether Christ ever said such things, making himself out to be God. This seems to show you kind of admire the guy, your questioning whether he made such statements. It was perhaps your small way of defending Jesus from such seemingly silly talk.

True! When you consider what Jesus taught like Luke 6:28 vs what Yahweh instructed like Numbers 31:17-18 its clear to me Jesus was morally superior to the God he is said to have been the son of. I know; I know, this is coming from a man who believes Jesus existed and Yahew did not; but I think Yahew reflected the moral code accepted by the people of that day which is much different than the moral code accepted by people of today; which often results in non believers using it as an example of flaws in the belief system.

I was appealing to this sentiment people seem to have, for what appears to be no good reason except that Christ is seen as an enlightened figure in history who many tend to respect had some kind wisdom or the like. BUT, let's say we accept Jesus did say words aligning himself with God, well then it's like I originally said: "I suppose the guy who said that was loco, out of his mind, or possibly just the best most convincing cult leader who ever existed, managing to convince a great portion of the world that he was God even until this day."

I believe men of war will worship a God of war, men of peace will worship a God of peace. I believe Moses and the men of the Old Testament were men of war so when they invented their God (IMO invented remember who you are talking to) they made him a God of war that reflected the values and (subjective) morality they had at that time.

I believe Jesus is a God of peace, so when values changed, Jesus came with a message that is more acceptable with the values of today. Unfortunately he had to align himself with the God of war from the past in order to be accepted which lead to his death.
The fact that he aligned himself with the God of the Old Testament doesn’t make him crazy, it just made him wrong on that issue; but that doesn’t take away from the positive messages he taught.

If we believe Jesus existed and said such, let's not pretend he's a good teacher. Really, he's really no better than say a David Koresh. If Christ lied, then he is worse! Given the number of people who have died in Jesus' name all in vain. You see, now I'm playing your strange desire to want to like and accept the guy, with a picture of someone who if they truly said the things it is claimed Jesus said, such a man if a man and not truly God is an evil man.

Its not all or nothing, it is possible to accept the positive message he presented while acknowledging he may have been wrong on other accounts.

Again, do we 2000 years later know whether such really happened? We've got a lot of information that needs explaining, but it's easy for us to dismiss since we're not part of that time to verify. Such is history, unverifiable from the future. We can only look to the information we have at hand, right? And it's easy for us to dismiss since we're not saturated by such a time and at a fair distance from such in our present day society.

Though some may attempt to dismiss all of it, I think it is best to recognize the good that resulted even though it may not all be true.

Ken

[Kenny]

Let's assume he did do that. Some believed him, many didn't. Now what?

Whether people believe him or not, the creator explaining how he created everything would still be extraordinary evidence IMO.

But he did do just that. So how come you don't believe Him then?

Not quite sure of what you are saying; are you saying Jesus is the Creator of true Universe?

Ken

[Byblos]

Let's assume he did do that. Some believed him, many didn't. Now what?

Whether people believe him or not, the creator explaining how he created everything would still be extraordinary evidence IMO.

But he did do just that. So how come you don't believe Him then?

Not quite sure of what you are saying; are you saying Jesus is the Creator of true Universe?

Ken

Yes.

[Audie]

http://www.rzim.eu/the-scandanavian-sce ... ief-system

Why "system"? is not believing in Nessie or flying saucers a "system"?

[Nessa]

But he did do just that. So how come you don't believe Him then?

Because Kenny demands that God does it Kenny's way. Kenny won't recognize God unless it's on Kenny's terms.

And how many of ya xtians is any different?

Actually I'm reminded of a post kurieuo did awhile back. I can't remember which thread though. He told us he went out on the balcony and ask God to manifest Himself or the spiritual relm in some way that he would recognize. Well, it didn't happen. God didnt meet with him in the way he 'demanded'. So did the story end there? Obviously not. He actually dug deeper to find out the truth.

I think you need to give Christians a little more credit than simply fashioning a god that they are pleased with. Often Christians can most certainly not be pleased with the way God chooses to do things.... And yet they still follow because it's the truth.

[RickD]

Let's assume he did do that. Some believed him, many didn't. Now what?

Whether people believe him or not, the creator explaining how he created everything would still be extraordinary evidence IMO.

But he did do just that. So how come you don't believe Him then?

Because Kenny demands that God does it Kenny's way. Kenny won't recognize God unless it's on Kenny's terms.

And how many of ya xtians is any different?

All. People are Christians because they believe the gospel. The gospel is God's way, not man's way.

[Kenny]

Let's assume he did do that. Some believed him, many didn't. Now what?

Whether people believe him or not, the creator explaining how he created everything would still be extraordinary evidence IMO.

But he did do just that. So how come you don't believe Him then?

Not quite sure of what you are saying; are you saying Jesus is the Creator of true Universe?

Ken

Yes.

Fair enough; there is a big difference between some ancient guys from thousands of years ago writing a book claiming somebody named Jesus created the Universe, vs a voice coming from the sky in today’s time explaining who he is and how he created the Universe. The voice from the sky is a bit more convincing.

Ken

[Byblos]

Whether people believe him or not, the creator explaining how he created everything would still be extraordinary evidence IMO.

But he did do just that. So how come you don't believe Him then?

Not quite sure of what you are saying; are you saying Jesus is the Creator of true Universe?

Ken

Yes.

Fair enough; there is a big difference between some ancient guys from thousands of years ago writing a book claiming somebody named Jesus created the Universe, vs a voice coming from the sky in today’s time explaining who he is and how he created the Universe. The voice from the sky is a bit more convincing.

Ken

If everyone heard God scream in a loud voice that he indeed created the universe and you and thousands of others were so convinced beyond any doubt that indeed it was the creator. But the rest of us, the majority, believe it was a hoax. What then?

[Kenny]

But he did do just that. So how come you don't believe Him then?

Not quite sure of what you are saying; are you saying Jesus is the Creator of true Universe?

Ken

Yes.

Fair enough; there is a big difference between some ancient guys from thousands of years ago writing a book claiming somebody named Jesus created the Universe, vs a voice coming from the sky in today’s time explaining who he is and how he created the Universe. The voice from the sky is a bit more convincing.

Ken

If everyone heard God scream in a loud voice that he indeed created the universe and you and thousands of others were so convinced beyond any doubt that indeed it was the creator. But the rest of us, the majority, believe it was a hoax. What then?

A voice coming from the sky witnessed by the entire world with today's technology can be proven to not be a hoax.

ken

[Byblos]

Not quite sure of what you are saying; are you saying Jesus is the Creator of true Universe?

Ken

Yes.

Fair enough; there is a big difference between some ancient guys from thousands of years ago writing a book claiming somebody named Jesus created the Universe, vs a voice coming from the sky in today’s time explaining who he is and how he created the Universe. The voice from the sky is a bit more convincing.

Ken

If everyone heard God scream in a loud voice that he indeed created the universe and you and thousands of others were so convinced beyond any doubt that indeed it was the creator. But the rest of us, the majority, believe it was a hoax. What then?

A voice coming from the sky witnessed by the entire world with today's technology can be proven to not be a hoax.

ken

God coming in the flesh, performing all kinds of miracles including dying on the cross and conquering death 3 days later, appearing to many, eating, drinking, conversing with them. Never mind hearing voices, these were direct eyewitnesses to these events and yet some did not believe. So forgive me if I think you are simply delusional to think you or anyone else would believe a voice from the sky. That's just silly.