Is Atheism a Belief System?

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
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Nessa
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Re: Is Atheism a Belief System?

Postby Nessa » Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:58 pm

Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Kenny wrote:
How do you distinguish the differences between the terms?

ken


Each term has a different meaning concerning what we believe about our world view.

All beliefs are based on what we know (or think we know). Some beliefs being true, while others being false.


So how do you distinguish the differences between Atheist and Agnostic?

Ken


Dawkins once used a scale from 1 to 10 to show at one end was belief in God and at the other total non belief. He actually saw himself somewhere along the scale towards non belief. Which would make him an agnostic more than a true atheist.


So you see an agnostic as a person who doesn't believe in God but isn't sure, where as an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in God but IS sure? If so, who is the person who does believe in God but isn't sure?

Ken


I see an agnostic as someone who neither believes in God or disbelieves in God.
They believe they do not know.

I see a true atheist as someone who believes (and thinks they know) that there is no God

If you believe in God (according to the bible) you are a Christian. Assumming you are also following Jesus. If you also doubt at times... That could simply make you human.
Last edited by Nessa on Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Is Atheism a Belief System?

Postby Kurieuo » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:00 pm

Kurieuo wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:Are you aware to the extra-biblical sources that speak of Christ being a miracle worker, sorcerer?

No.


Kenny, if interested to piece together your own beliefs about this person of Jesus, read the extra-biblical sources, etc, then there is a page I came across that I'd like to point you to: Is There Any Evidence for Jesus Outside the Bible?

It details the various external non-Biblical sources, so you'll get to read over them and determine for yourself what to make of such. You may not embrace Jesus as God, or the resurrection, but it'll provide you with greater awareness perhaps of certain things to factor in with your beliefs.

Kenny, I mentioned this page here which contains various references to Jesus. I know there's some banter going on, but I'd like to know after reading some of the extra-biblical sources, where you stand in your beliefs on Christ. (I don't expect you to agree with the author's own views, but the sources are there to be read nonetheless)

Then in addition to that, what you make of the miracle claims or the like. You know, the Jewish leaders didn't deny for example that Jesus performed miracles, but rather attributed such to sorcery. It seemed to be without question, that at least the people of the time believed Jesus performed wondrous works. Could Jesus had possessed a special gift that could perhaps be explained naturally? What do you make of such.
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Kenny
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Re: Is Atheism a Belief System?

Postby Kenny » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:07 pm

Nessa wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Each term has a different meaning concerning what we believe about our world view.

All beliefs are based on what we know (or think we know). Some beliefs being true, while others being false.


So how do you distinguish the differences between Atheist and Agnostic?

Ken


Dawkins once used a scale from 1 to 10 to show at one end was belief in God and at the other total non belief. He actually saw himself somewhere along the scale towards non belief. Which would make him an agnostic more than a true atheist.


So you see an agnostic as a person who doesn't believe in God but isn't sure, where as an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in God but IS sure? If so, who is the person who does believe in God but isn't sure?

Ken


I see an agnostic as someone who neither believes in God or disbelieves in God.
They believe they do not know.

I see a true atheist as someone who believes (and thinks they know) that there is no God


So the Agnostic is the person who doesn't have an opinion on the issue, but Theists and Atheists do have an opinion?

Ken

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Nessa
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Re: Is Atheism a Belief System?

Postby Nessa » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:10 pm

Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Kenny wrote:
So how do you distinguish the differences between Atheist and Agnostic?

Ken


Dawkins once used a scale from 1 to 10 to show at one end was belief in God and at the other total non belief. He actually saw himself somewhere along the scale towards non belief. Which would make him an agnostic more than a true atheist.


So you see an agnostic as a person who doesn't believe in God but isn't sure, where as an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in God but IS sure? If so, who is the person who does believe in God but isn't sure?

Ken


I see an agnostic as someone who neither believes in God or disbelieves in God.
They believe they do not know.

I see a true atheist as someone who believes (and thinks they know) that there is no God


So the Agnostic is the person who doesn't have an opinion on the issue, but Theists and Atheists do have an opinion?

Ken


Maybe we can be obtuse together :P

An agnostic has just as much of an opinion as an atheist or believer.

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Re: Is Atheism a Belief System?

Postby Kenny » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:14 pm

Nessa wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Dawkins once used a scale from 1 to 10 to show at one end was belief in God and at the other total non belief. He actually saw himself somewhere along the scale towards non belief. Which would make him an agnostic more than a true atheist.


So you see an agnostic as a person who doesn't believe in God but isn't sure, where as an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in God but IS sure? If so, who is the person who does believe in God but isn't sure?

Ken


I see an agnostic as someone who neither believes in God or disbelieves in God.
They believe they do not know.

I see a true atheist as someone who believes (and thinks they know) that there is no God


So the Agnostic is the person who doesn't have an opinion on the issue, but Theists and Atheists do have an opinion?

Ken


Maybe we can be obtuse together :P

An agnostic has just as much of an opinion as an atheist or believer.


Okay; you said the Agnostic doesn't believe, neither does he disbelieve. So what's left? What is the agnostic's opinion on the issue?

K

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Re: Is Atheism a Belief System?

Postby Nessa » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:20 pm

Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Kenny wrote:
So you see an agnostic as a person who doesn't believe in God but isn't sure, where as an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in God but IS sure? If so, who is the person who does believe in God but isn't sure?

Ken


I see an agnostic as someone who neither believes in God or disbelieves in God.
They believe they do not know.

I see a true atheist as someone who believes (and thinks they know) that there is no God


So the Agnostic is the person who doesn't have an opinion on the issue, but Theists and Atheists do have an opinion?

Ken


Maybe we can be obtuse together :P

An agnostic has just as much of an opinion as an atheist or believer.


Okay; you said the Agnostic doesn't believe, neither does he disbelieve. So what's left? What is the agnostic's opinion on the issue?

K


The agnostic believes there is not enough evidence to prove (or disprove) there is a God so they think they cannot know either way.
Last edited by Nessa on Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is Atheism a Belief System?

Postby Kenny » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:21 pm

Nessa wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:
I see an agnostic as someone who neither believes in God or disbelieves in God.
They believe they do not know.

I see a true atheist as someone who believes (and thinks they know) that there is no God


So the Agnostic is the person who doesn't have an opinion on the issue, but Theists and Atheists do have an opinion?

Ken


Maybe we can be obtuse together :P

An agnostic has just as much of an opinion as an atheist or believer.


Okay; you said the Agnostic doesn't believe, neither does he disbelieve. So what's left? What is the agnostic's opinion on the issue?

K


The agnostic believes there is not enough evidence to prove there is a God so they think they cannot know either way.

Again; so what is the Agnostic opinion on the issue?

Ken

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Re: Is Atheism a Belief System?

Postby Nessa » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:23 pm

Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Kenny wrote:
So the Agnostic is the person who doesn't have an opinion on the issue, but Theists and Atheists do have an opinion?

Ken


Maybe we can be obtuse together :P

An agnostic has just as much of an opinion as an atheist or believer.


Okay; you said the Agnostic doesn't believe, neither does he disbelieve. So what's left? What is the agnostic's opinion on the issue?

K


The agnostic believes there is not enough evidence to prove there is a God so they think they cannot know either way.

Again; so what is the Agnostic opinion on the issue?

Ken


For example:

Hey Im Sally and my opinion on God is that...

I believe there is not enough evidence to prove (or disprove) there is a God so i think I cannot know either way.

Kenny
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Re: Is Atheism a Belief System?

Postby Kenny » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:31 pm

Nessa wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Maybe we can be obtuse together :P

An agnostic has just as much of an opinion as an atheist or believer.


Okay; you said the Agnostic doesn't believe, neither does he disbelieve. So what's left? What is the agnostic's opinion on the issue?

K


The agnostic believes there is not enough evidence to prove there is a God so they think they cannot know either way.

Again; so what is the Agnostic opinion on the issue?

Ken


For example:

Hey Im Sally and my opinion on God is that...

I believe there is not enough evidence to prove (or disprove) there is a God so i think I cannot know either way.

So you perceive the reply "I don't know" as an opinion?

Ken

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Nessa
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Re: Is Atheism a Belief System?

Postby Nessa » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:35 pm

Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Okay; you said the Agnostic doesn't believe, neither does he disbelieve. So what's left? What is the agnostic's opinion on the issue?

K


The agnostic believes there is not enough evidence to prove there is a God so they think they cannot know either way.

Again; so what is the Agnostic opinion on the issue?

Ken


For example:

Hey Im Sally and my opinion on God is that...

I believe there is not enough evidence to prove (or disprove) there is a God so i think I cannot know either way.

So you perceive the reply "I don't know" as an opinion?

Ken


opinion
əˈpɪnjən/Submit
noun
1.
a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
"that, in my opinion, is right"
synonyms: belief, judgement, thought(s), school of thought, thinking, way of thinking, mind, point of view, view, viewpoint, outlook, angle, slant, side, attitude, stance, perspective, position, standpoint; More
2.
a statement of advice by an expert on a professional matter.
"if in doubt, get a second opinion"


Yes.

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Re: Is Atheism a Belief System?

Postby Kenny » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:38 pm

Nessa wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:
The agnostic believes there is not enough evidence to prove there is a God so they think they cannot know either way.

Again; so what is the Agnostic opinion on the issue?

Ken


For example:

Hey Im Sally and my opinion on God is that...

I believe there is not enough evidence to prove (or disprove) there is a God so i think I cannot know either way.

So you perceive the reply "I don't know" as an opinion?

Ken


opinion
əˈpɪnjən/Submit
noun
1.
a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
"that, in my opinion, is right"
synonyms: belief, judgement, thought(s), school of thought, thinking, way of thinking, mind, point of view, view, viewpoint, outlook, angle, slant, side, attitude, stance, perspective, position, standpoint; More
2.
a statement of advice by an expert on a professional matter.
"if in doubt, get a second opinion"


Yes.


Fair enough. I've always considered an opinion as an assertion of belief; whereas I don't know is more of a neutral position

ken

Kenny
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Re: Is Atheism a Belief System?

Postby Kenny » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:42 pm

Kenny wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:Are you aware to the extra-biblical sources that speak of Christ being a miracle worker, sorcerer?

No.


Kurieuo wrote:Kenny, if interested to piece together your own beliefs about this person of Jesus, read the extra-biblical sources, etc, then there is a page I came across that I'd like to point you to: Is There Any Evidence for Jesus Outside the Bible?

It details the various external non-Biblical sources, so you'll get to read over them and determine for yourself what to make of such. You may not embrace Jesus as God, or the resurrection, but it'll provide you with greater awareness perhaps of certain things to factor in with your beliefs.


Kurieuo wrote:Kenny, I mentioned this page here which contains various references to Jesus. I know there's some banter going on, but I'd like to know after reading some of the extra-biblical sources, where you stand in your beliefs on Christ. (I don't expect you to agree with the author's own views, but the sources are there to be read nonetheless)

My views are the same; just a religious leader.

Kurieuo wrote:Then in addition to that, what you make of the miracle claims or the like. You know, the Jewish leaders didn't deny for example that Jesus performed miracles, but rather attributed such to sorcery. It seemed to be without question, that at least the people of the time believed Jesus performed wondrous works. Could Jesus had possessed a special gift that could perhaps be explained naturally? What do you make of such.

Some accounts do say there was darkness during his crucifixion, There is mention that he acquired magical powers that he learned from the Egyptians when he worked for them, so apparently people performing magic was not unusual back then. I’ve seen street magicians perform tricks that look like magic; did Jesus posses a special gift? Perhaps special, but nothing outside the laws of nature.

Ken

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Re: Is Atheism a Belief System?

Postby Kurieuo » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:47 pm

So then, is this for you like kind of part of Jesus' split nature?

That is, similar to how Jesus used Jewish teachings of their God of war to get them hear his reinvented message of a loving God or what have you, Jesus is purposefully misleading people as a charlatan yet all for some good cause?

Really, I feel if a person deceives especially on Benny Hinn scale, then they're not really teaching love or about such. Truth ought to be never forsaken in love. Sadly, many today I believe do think truth should be set aside for love, but to me such love is built upon quicksand.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Is Atheism a Belief System?

Postby Kenny » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:54 pm

Kurieuo wrote:So then, is this for you like kind of part of Jesus' split nature?

That is, similar to how Jesus used Jewish teachings of their God of war to get them hear his reinvented message of a loving God or what have you, Jesus is purposefully misleading people as a charlatan yet all for some good cause?

Really, I feel if a person deceives especially on Benny Hinn scale, then they're not really teaching love or about such. Truth ought to be never forsaken in love. Sadly, many today I believe do think truth should be set aside for love, but to me such love is built upon quicksand.

I would find it difficulty to speak ill of Jesus because he never wrote anything down. The only thing we know is what other people said about him. I would consider it unfair to judge him harshly based on what other people said of him

Ken

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Re: Is Atheism a Belief System?

Postby Kurieuo » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:08 pm

Kenny wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:So then, is this for you like kind of part of Jesus' split nature?

That is, similar to how Jesus used Jewish teachings of their God of war to get them hear his reinvented message of a loving God or what have you, Jesus is purposefully misleading people as a charlatan yet all for some good cause?

Really, I feel if a person deceives especially on Benny Hinn scale, then they're not really teaching love or about such. Truth ought to be never forsaken in love. Sadly, many today I believe do think truth should be set aside for love, but to me such love is built upon quicksand.

I would find it difficulty to speak ill of Jesus because he never wrote anything down. The only thing we know is what other people said about him. I would consider it unfair to judge him harshly based on what other people said of him

Oh, turtle head, how do I bring you out of your shell?
You seem to come out, and then go back in at the slightest discomfort.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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