Why I never became an atheist.

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
Audie
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3474
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:41 am
Christian: No
Sex: Female
Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
Location: USA

Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Postby Audie » Wed May 11, 2016 8:03 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
Audie wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
The god that sent a world wide flood does not exist either, for simple reason that that flood never occurred


I can't tell you how many skeptics have the same faulty equations skills.
It's not a slight on you Audie, it's simply a fact that many skeptics THINK they know the bible and quite simply don't.
To be honest, MANY believers have the same problem.



Faulty equation skills. Right.

Does the Paul Sacramento who was president of the USA for six consecutive terms exist?

As for "knowing the bible", I know it a whole lot better than a great many, possibly most Christians. But you agree many "believers" dont know squat about their own book.

There are btw some 38000 sects all of whom understand the bible differently / better than the others. Not to mention some few eccentric individuals and their take.



Audie, according to you:
The god that sent a world wide flood does not exist either, for simple reason that that flood never occurred

That means you equate the the world wide flood never happening to God not existing.
The problem with that is the bible does NOT say it was a world wide flood ( though some INTERPRET that way).
You are taking ONE possible interpretation of an "equation" and saying that because it is not correct, math doesn't exist.

Do you see what you are doing wrong there?



I am not doing anything 'wrong". Possibly you are.

Do you agree that there was no god who sent a world wide flood?

Do you think your reading that it doesnt mean world wide is inerrant?

The story makes no sense as a local flood, and even less as world wide.

Kenny
Ultimate Member
Posts: 2436
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:17 pm
Christian: No
Sex: Male
Creation Position: I don't believe in creation

Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Postby Kenny » Wed May 11, 2016 8:46 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
When you say "based on what we know of the Universe" this "we" you speak of are your fellow Christians; not the scientist who spend their lives studying the Universe; most of whom just so happen to be atheist right?

I mean based on what those "mostly atheist" scientists state.



So let me see if I’ve got this straight;

A) Evidence from the Universe points to God
B) Christians; most who know little about the Universe believe in God
C) Scientists who know a lot about the Universe mostly reject God.

It seems to me A is in direct contradiction to B & C. Where am I going wrong here?

Ken

PaulSacramento
Board Moderator
Posts: 7584
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Postby PaulSacramento » Wed May 11, 2016 9:32 am

I am not doing anything 'wrong". Possibly you are.


Alright then.

PaulSacramento
Board Moderator
Posts: 7584
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Postby PaulSacramento » Wed May 11, 2016 9:34 am

Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
When you say "based on what we know of the Universe" this "we" you speak of are your fellow Christians; not the scientist who spend their lives studying the Universe; most of whom just so happen to be atheist right?

I mean based on what those "mostly atheist" scientists state.



So let me see if I’ve got this straight;

A) Evidence from the Universe points to God
B) Christians; most who know little about the Universe believe in God
C) Scientists who know a lot about the Universe mostly reject God.

It seems to me A is in direct contradiction to B & C. Where am I going wrong here?

Ken


Where are you going wrong?
Well, everywhere.

This is what you SHOULD have wrote IF you understood what I have been writing:

A) Evidence from the Universe points to a first cause/unmoved mover ( that which brings things that come into existence, into existence)
B) Christians believe this to be God
C) Scientists who know a lot about the Universe are NOT specialists in theology and as such, don't comment on the existence of God.


Understood?

User avatar
Philip
Board Moderator
Posts: 5382
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:45 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Betwixt the Sea and the Mountains

Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Postby Philip » Wed May 11, 2016 10:05 am

Audie: if there is a god, it sure isnt the OT / NT one.


Why NOT? In the first place, if there is a God, you don't get to pick and choose what He is like, or that YOU think He should be like. But what Scriptural aspects of the Christian God do you believe negate Him as a possible candidate for God?

Audie
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3474
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:41 am
Christian: No
Sex: Female
Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
Location: USA

Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Postby Audie » Wed May 11, 2016 10:38 am

Philip wrote:
Audie: if there is a god, it sure isnt the OT / NT one.


Why NOT? In the first place, if there is a God, you don't get to pick and choose what He is like, or that YOU think He should be like. But what Scriptural aspects of the Christian God do you believe negate Him as a possible candidate for God?



Oh? You got to pick and choose whether he is the one who sent a world wide flood,

Did you pick whether he is the one who arranged for Joseph Smith to find gold books with the book of mormon in them?

Do you consider it to be picking and choosing to say that the Philip who ate New York City does not exist?


Could you identify what you mean by "spiritual aspects' of said god?

Audie
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3474
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:41 am
Christian: No
Sex: Female
Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
Location: USA

Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Postby Audie » Wed May 11, 2016 10:45 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
When you say "based on what we know of the Universe" this "we" you speak of are your fellow Christians; not the scientist who spend their lives studying the Universe; most of whom just so happen to be atheist right?

I mean based on what those "mostly atheist" scientists state.



So let me see if I’ve got this straight;

A) Evidence from the Universe points to God
B) Christians; most who know little about the Universe believe in God
C) Scientists who know a lot about the Universe mostly reject God.

It seems to me A is in direct contradiction to B & C. Where am I going wrong here?

Ken


Where are you going wrong?
Well, everywhere.

This is what you SHOULD have wrote IF you understood what I have been writing:

A) Evidence from the Universe points to a first cause/unmoved mover ( that which brings things that come into existence, into existence)
B) Christians believe this to be God
C) Scientists who know a lot about the Universe are NOT specialists in theology and as such, don't comment on the existence of God.


Understood?


Your ideas are easy to understand.

Do you understand how often truisms are merely facile, not true?

Is this evidence in the form of physical data?

Do physicists agree with you reading of what such data as there may be actually means?

User avatar
Philip
Board Moderator
Posts: 5382
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:45 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Betwixt the Sea and the Mountains

Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Postby Philip » Wed May 11, 2016 11:34 am

Audie: Oh? You got to pick and choose whether he is the one who sent a world wide flood,


OK, cheap shot - as you should know that the wording does not necessitate a global flood (http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/localflood.html)

Audie: Did you pick whether he is the one who arranged for Joseph Smith to find gold books with the book of mormon in them?


Audie, that's just a stupid comment - I would expect more honesty from you. You know that Joseph Smith's teachings are not considered Biblical by Christians, that one cannot even validate any of the geographic locations mentioned. And, as we're speaking of the BIBLE, what the heck does Joseph Smith have to do with it? That's what we around here call a strawman and a dodge!

Audie: Do you consider it to be picking and choosing to say that the Philip who ate New York City does not exist?


Audie, you are failing to have an honest discussion here by just throwing out dumb comments. You're not even being honest with yourself! No wonder you can't see the truth!

Audie: Could you identify what you mean by "spiritual aspects' of said god?


What you said was that IF God exists, that He cannot be the one of Scripture. So, I'm asking you what descriptions of God or His actions FROM SCRIPTURE do you believe negates the possibility that He is God? It's a simple question. Now, an honest answer of different actions you can't fathom God - or ANY God - wouldn't have or do - I can understand that. But, hopefully, you also know that, intellectually, just because you can't or don't understand a person, or truth, or whatever - that doesn't mean 1) it's NOT true and 2) it doesn't mean that this truthful thing doesn't exist. The reality of whatever truth doesn't become false just because you don't like or understand it. So, it's one thing to say, "I don't think a God would do this or that." Fine. But if He DID do this or that, your OPINION as to what YOU think He would or wouldn't have done, or what he is like, doesn't change whatever His reality is.

Let's say you are an orphan and were adopted as a tiny baby. You are now a grown woman. And you accidentally come across someone who knows exactly who your father is, where he is, and what he is like. And upon hearing him described, you realize that your supposed father doesn't think anything like you do, you can't understand what you're told his views are, or how he's described, or his past action make you feel uncomfortable - even though you don't know all of the details about Him - or what misconceptions you might have about him. And so, the more you know, you refuse to seek out your birth father, don't want to know him, and in fact you declare to your friend, "I don't believe my real father even still exists, and I KNOW that person could never be my father - as I think NOTHING like he does. So, Audie, would that mean that this person that you have been informed about could not be your father - as he's not what you would expect? Of course he could very well be your father. But what would make it impossible that he is your father? That some fact or facts that you know can PROVE that he cannot be your father. Say, you discover this man is far to old to credibly have been your father. Perhaps he lived in a foreign land during the time you know your real father had to live in whatever country you were born in. But short of some disproving facts, you know that, unless proven otherwise, that this man could well be your father. And so it is with God.

So, Audie, not based upon your preferences or current understandings, what SPECIFICALLY in the Bible, that describes God, His character, or His actions, do you believe PROVES the God of the Bible cannot exist? Because unless you have something that proves this, yours is simply feelings, preferences and personal opinion. So, give me some FACTS that make the God of the Bible impossible - and base it upon what Scripture says, not opinion, and not some strawman junk about Joseph Smith or other such nonsense!

Kenny
Ultimate Member
Posts: 2436
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:17 pm
Christian: No
Sex: Male
Creation Position: I don't believe in creation

Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Postby Kenny » Wed May 11, 2016 12:00 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:
Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
When you say "based on what we know of the Universe" this "we" you speak of are your fellow Christians; not the scientist who spend their lives studying the Universe; most of whom just so happen to be atheist right?

I mean based on what those "mostly atheist" scientists state.



So let me see if I’ve got this straight;

A) Evidence from the Universe points to God
B) Christians; most who know little about the Universe believe in God
C) Scientists who know a lot about the Universe mostly reject God.

It seems to me A is in direct contradiction to B & C. Where am I going wrong here?

Ken


Where are you going wrong?
Well, everywhere.

This is what you SHOULD have wrote IF you understood what I have been writing:

A) Evidence from the Universe points to a first cause/unmoved mover ( that which brings things that come into existence, into existence)
B) Christians believe this to be God
C) Scientists who know a lot about the Universe are NOT specialists in theology and as such, don't comment on the existence of God.


Understood?

So going back to my previous question, again; the "we" you were referring to is your fellow Christians, not the Scientists who spend their lives studying the Universe most of whom just so happen to be Atheist. Correct?

Ken

User avatar
Byblos
Old School
Posts: 5645
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:21 pm
Christian: Yes
Location: NY

Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Postby Byblos » Wed May 11, 2016 12:20 pm

Kenny wrote:So going back to my previous question, again; the "we" you were referring to is your fellow Christians, not the Scientists who spend their lives studying the Universe most of whom just so happen to be Atheist. Correct?


Kenny you do realize that one of the most prestigious astrophysics observatories in the world is located in the Vatican, don't you?
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

Audie
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3474
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:41 am
Christian: No
Sex: Female
Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
Location: USA

Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Postby Audie » Wed May 11, 2016 1:18 pm

Byblos wrote:
Kenny wrote:So going back to my previous question, again; the "we" you were referring to is your fellow Christians, not the Scientists who spend their lives studying the Universe most of whom just so happen to be Atheist. Correct?


Kenny you do realize that one of the most prestigious astrophysics observatories in the world is located in the Vatican, don't you?


They interviewed one of the astronomers on "On Being" some months ago.

For those who think it is like star trek, plz disregard and return to comic books.

Audie
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3474
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:41 am
Christian: No
Sex: Female
Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
Location: USA

Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Postby Audie » Wed May 11, 2016 1:22 pm

Philip wrote:
Audie: Oh? You got to pick and choose whether he is the one who sent a world wide flood,


OK, cheap shot - as you should know that the wording does not necessitate a global flood (http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/localflood.html)


Only a cheap shot when i serve it back to you?



Audie: Did you pick whether he is the one who arranged for Joseph Smith to find gold books with the book of mormon in them?


Audie, that's just a stupid comment - I would expect more honesty from you. You know that Joseph Smith's teachings are not considered Biblical by Christians, that one cannot even validate any of the geographic locations mentioned. And, as we're speaking of the BIBLE, what the heck does Joseph Smith have to do with it? That's what we around here call a strawman and a dodge!


Ok..we are done. let me know if you want to behave decently some other time.

Audie: Do you consider it to be picking and choosing to say that the Philip who ate New York City does not exist?


Audie, you are failing to have an honest discussion here by just throwing out dumb comments. You're not even being honest with yourself! No wonder you can't see the truth!

Audie: Could you identify what you mean by "spiritual aspects' of said god?


What you said was that IF God exists, that He cannot be the one of Scripture. So, I'm asking you what descriptions of God or His actions FROM SCRIPTURE do you believe negates the possibility that He is God? It's a simple question. Now, an honest answer of different actions you can't fathom God - or ANY God - wouldn't have or do - I can understand that. But, hopefully, you also know that, intellectually, just because you can't or don't understand a person, or truth, or whatever - that doesn't mean 1) it's NOT true and 2) it doesn't mean that this truthful thing doesn't exist. The reality of whatever truth doesn't become false just because you don't like or understand it. So, it's one thing to say, "I don't think a God would do this or that." Fine. But if He DID do this or that, your OPINION as to what YOU think He would or wouldn't have done, or what he is like, doesn't change whatever His reality is.

Let's say you are an orphan and were adopted as a tiny baby. You are now a grown woman. And you accidentally come across someone who knows exactly who your father is, where he is, and what he is like. And upon hearing him described, you realize that your supposed father doesn't think anything like you do, you can't understand what you're told his views are, or how he's described, or his past action make you feel uncomfortable - even though you don't know all of the details about Him - or what misconceptions you might have about him. And so, the more you know, you refuse to seek out your birth father, don't want to know him, and in fact you declare to your friend, "I don't believe my real father even still exists, and I KNOW that person could never be my father - as I think NOTHING like he does. So, Audie, would that mean that this person that you have been informed about could not be your father - as he's not what you would expect? Of course he could very well be your father. But what would make it impossible that he is your father? That some fact or facts that you know can PROVE that he cannot be your father. Say, you discover this man is far to old to credibly have been your father. Perhaps he lived in a foreign land during the time you know your real father had to live in whatever country you were born in. But short of some disproving facts, you know that, unless proven otherwise, that this man could well be your father. And so it is with God.

So, Audie, not based upon your preferences or current understandings, what SPECIFICALLY in the Bible, that describes God, His character, or His actions, do you believe PROVES the God of the Bible cannot exist? Because unless you have something that proves this, yours is simply feelings, preferences and personal opinion. So, give me some FACTS that make the God of the Bible impossible - and base it upon what Scripture says, not opinion, and not some strawman junk about Joseph Smith or other such nonsense!

User avatar
RickD
Board Moderator
Posts: 17805
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kamino

Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Postby RickD » Wed May 11, 2016 1:24 pm

Kenny wrote:

So going back to my previous question, again; the "we" you were referring to is your fellow Christians, not the Scientists who spend their lives studying the Universe most of whom just so happen to be Atheist. Correct


Kenny,

Astronomers and astrophysicists tend more often than not, to believe in God. Knowledgeable astrophysicists realize there's overwhelming evidence for God, from studying their branch of science.

Here's just one example.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

User avatar
Storyteller
Make me a Sammich Member
Posts: 2832
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:54 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Postby Storyteller » Wed May 11, 2016 1:51 pm

Her testimony is amazingly, beautifully moving.


Audie.... if you love me at all.... read her testimony, please.
And Ken.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

Audie
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3474
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:41 am
Christian: No
Sex: Female
Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
Location: USA

Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Postby Audie » Wed May 11, 2016 1:53 pm

Storyteller wrote:Her testimony is amazingly, beautifully moving.


Audie.... if you love me at all.... read her testimony, please.
And Ken.

Who?


Return to “Questioning Non-belief”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests