In defense of objective morals

[Byblos]

• a. Slavery is wrong
  b. I think of slavery as wrong

Prefixing your thoughs with "I think" doesn't change much. If you think it does you are being silly.

Unicorns are pretty.

The ice cream comparrison makes a mockery of the suffering and slavery of animals in the dairy industry and the beliefs of millions. Stop it, pick something else to inflate your ego and equate your opinions with that of the divine.

As you say, it's all about misunderstanding where one's opinion becomes fact.

Of course, everyone thinks that slavery really is wrong

No, they don't. There are more slaves in the world now than there were people on earth back when Aristotle was arguing animals are beasts of burden and certain people, of course not him, were natural slaves. Let's be correct about this "Jac thinks that everyone thinks that slavery is wrong"

Now now pron, play nice.

You know what, forget slavery, stealing, even killing. There was a horrific news story in NYC the other day where a young man snuck into an 82 year old woman's apartment and demanded money. When she told him she had none he proceeded to rape her. Now this was not a man with diminished mental capacity. He was fully aware of what he was doing and did it over the course of several hours.

Can anyone in their right mind give a scenario under which this hanious act is NOT objectively wrong? Ever? At any time, any place, in any society?

[Proinsias]

It's *sweary word* horrible

The 'right mind' bit gets to the heart of it. He can't be in his right mind if he is wrong!

[Kenny]

• a. Slavery is wrong
  b. I think of slavery as wrong

Prefixing your thoughs with "I think" doesn't change much. If you think it does you are being silly.

Unicorns are pretty.

The ice cream comparrison makes a mockery of the suffering and slavery of animals in the dairy industry and the beliefs of millions. Stop it, pick something else to inflate your ego and equate your opinions with that of the divine.

As you say, it's all about misunderstanding where one's opinion becomes fact.

Of course, everyone thinks that slavery really is wrong

No, they don't. There are more slaves in the world now than there were people on earth back when Aristotle was arguing animals are beasts of burden and certain people, of course not him, were natural slaves. Let's be correct about this "Jac thinks that everyone thinks that slavery is wrong"

Now now pron, play nice.

You know what, forget slavery, stealing, even killing. There was a horrific news story in NYC the other day where a young man snuck into an 82 year old woman's apartment and demanded money. When she told him she had none he proceeded to rape her. Now this was not a man with diminished mental capacity. He was fully aware of what he was doing and did it over the course of several hours.

Can anyone in their right mind give a scenario under which this hanious act is NOT objectively wrong? Ever? At any time, any place, in any society?

rape is easy. If morality is objective, it is going to have to be applied to the difficult scenarios as well. Proinsias made some excellent points.


Ken

[Kurieuo]

Rape is easy? Have you raped someone Kenny...

[Byblos]

It's *sweary word* horrible

The 'right mind' bit gets to the heart of it. He can't be in his right mind if he is wrong!

So any wrong done, anywhere, ever, can be excused as a mental defect? Is that really what you're saying?

[Byblos]

rape is easy. If morality is objective, it is going to have to be applied to the difficult scenarios as well. Proinsias made some excellent points.

If it's that easy you should have no problem answering my question then.

[Kenny]

Rape is easy? Have you raped someone Kenny...

I said rape is easy because everybody agrees on that issue. I think Proinsias made an excellent point about the treatment of animals.
The fact that animals raised for food will live an entire life of torture up to the point of slaughter. We have chickens so full of drugs and so bloated they can’t even walk, and if they could the cages are so small and cramped there isn’t any room to walk anyway. Is this moral?

But this type of treatment is the only way we can get those huge 5-6 oz chicken breasts we’ve become accustomed to instead of the 4 oz breast of a natural chicken; and if we had less meat the 1 out of 6 Americans who struggle with hunger will be 1 out of 4 or 1 out of 3

But then we throw away over half of the food produced in this USA, if we wasted less we could treat animals humanely and still have enough for everyone to eat..

But throwing food away is the result of quality control in the meat packing industry; we don’t wanna go back to the times of the 1930’s when everyone was getting sick do we?

And that’s just chickens; what about cows? Ever see a ranch hand saw the horns off a long horned bull? Is that moral?

If morality were objective, these type of questions would be as obvious as 1+1=2. The fact that some people will say yes while others will say no, is obvious to me that morality is subjective.

Ken

[Kenny]

rape is easy. If morality is objective, it is going to have to be applied to the difficult scenarios as well. Proinsias made some excellent points.

If it's that easy you should have no problem answering my question then.

I have no problem answering the question. Because objective morality doesn't exist, the story is an example of SUBJECTIVE immorality.

Ken
PS I promised you an answer; I never promised you would agree!

[Byblos]

rape is easy. If morality is objective, it is going to have to be applied to the difficult scenarios as well. Proinsias made some excellent points.

If it's that easy you should have no problem answering my question then.

I have no problem answering the question. Because objective morality doesn't exist, the story is an example of SUBJECTIVE immorality.

Ken
PS I promised you an answer; I never promised you would agree!

Lol, ok kenny, whatever you say. But here's an absolutely objective fact for you, the level of mental gymnastics you must do is astounding, all in an effort to deny the obvious, that there really and truly are some moral truths that are objectively true, irrespective of anyone's subjective opinion.

But I'll leave you to your subjective delusions (in my opinion).

[RickD]

Kenny,

If I live in a society where it's not illegal to rape a woman, and I commit rape, is it wrong?

[RickD]

Anyone think that Kenny isn't really as obtuse as he seems to be?

And that he really understands that moral truths exist, but he cannot bear the logical conclusion of that belief?

[Kenny]

Kenny,

If I live in a society where it's not illegal to rape a woman, and I commit rape, is it wrong?

Of course it is wrong!

Anyone think that Kenny isn't really as obtuse as he seems to be?
And that he really understands that moral truths exist, but he cannot bear the logical conclusion of that belief?

The problem is, you guys seem to be under the impression that objective morality is somehow superior to subjective morality; that if it isn't objective, it doesn't count!

Ken

[Kenny]

rape is easy. If morality is objective, it is going to have to be applied to the difficult scenarios as well. Proinsias made some excellent points.

If it's that easy you should have no problem answering my question then.

I have no problem answering the question. Because objective morality doesn't exist, the story is an example of SUBJECTIVE immorality.

Ken
PS I promised you an answer; I never promised you would agree!

Lol, ok kenny, whatever you say. But here's an absolutely objective fact for you, the level of mental gymnastics you must do is astounding, all in an effort to deny the obvious, that there really and truly are some moral truths that are objectively true, irrespective of anyone's subjective opinion.

But I'll leave you to your subjective delusions (in my opinion).

Before you leave, would you mind answering some of the questions I asked Kurieuo? The questions I asked about animals raised for food?

K

[RickD]

RickD wrote:
Kenny,

If I live in a society where it's not illegal to rape a woman, and I commit rape, is it wrong?

Ken wrote:
Of course it is wrong!

Why would it be wrong, if it's not illegal, and therefore I think it's ok? So, tell me why it would be wrong?

[Kenny]

RickD wrote:
Kenny,

If I live in a society where it's not illegal to rape a woman, and I commit rape, is it wrong?

Ken wrote:
Of course it is wrong!

Why would it be wrong, if it's not illegal, and therefore I think it's ok? So, tell me why it would be wrong?

If I could demonstrate to you that it was wrong, and provide absolute proof? It would be "objectively wrong". The fact that I can't shows it is subjectively wrong.

Ken