Help me out with this statement

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
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Kurieuo
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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby Kurieuo » Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:28 pm

Kenny wrote:
EssentialSacrifice wrote:between this ...

There is plenty of evidence, just not the type of evidence that is going to convince you or other Christians like yourself. But unless I am trying to convert you or others to my way of thinking (which I am not) my evidence doesn't need to be convincing to anyone but myself

Ken


and this ...

RickD wrote:
You say you lack a belief that God exists, and you claim there's evidence to prove a lack of belief?


I'm very interested in how this thread rides itself out ! y:-? So Ken, what is this evidence and if you only have to satisfy your individual requirements for the existence or not of God, does that men it's all in your head ? alone ?
Without support, I'm afraid it does ... so your "plenty of evidence" y*-:) although shockingly self evident y:-? needs to be explained to the rest of us for clarification.


I’ve never been the type to say I lack belief in God, I think I’ve been consistent with claiming what some call God may exist, but because I don’t call anything God, I am atheist. Some worship nature, the Sun, or other inanimate objects, In Rastafarian Haile Selassie was seen as the incarnation of Jesus and worshipped. In some sects of Hindu, Kumari is believed to be the incarnation of one of their Gods. These people are as human as you and I but are worshipped as God, so it would be silly to say what these people call God doesn’t exist. (Haile Selassie died in the 1970’s but I believe Kumari is still alive today)

You are Christian so all of that doesn’t matter; when you say God you mean the Christian God. One of many reasons I don’t believe in the Christian God is because I find his description to be a contradiction. You can’t be all good and do bad things. You can’t be all wise and do unwise things. You can’t be perfect but do imperfect things. When I look at his treatment of Adam and Eve, Job, People of Egypt, Noah, and many other actions and instructions of God described in the Bible, I see unfair treatment, unwise decisions, and lots of imperfections.

Yet, you resist broader philosophical conceptions of God too, for example an Aristotelian theology.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby RickD » Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:37 am

Kenny wrote:

You are Christian so all of that doesn’t matter; when you say God you mean the Christian God. One of many reasons I don’t believe in the Christian God is because I find his description to be a contradiction. You can’t be all good and do bad things. You can’t be all wise and do unwise things. You can’t be perfect but do imperfect things. When I look at his treatment of Adam and Eve, Job, People of Egypt, Noah, and many other actions and instructions of God described in the Bible, I see unfair treatment, unwise decisions, and lots of imperfections.


Take your seats boys and girls, and open up your text book to Straw man chapter 1. :beat:
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby PaulSacramento » Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:55 am

Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Kenny wrote:
EssentialSacrifice wrote:
what the bible is describing is not what I would call God.



What would you call God ? what would it take in description and form to be called God, IYO ?

Among other things, fair treatment, wise decisions, and no imperfections according to my standards.

Ken

So they only thing you can disprove is a god accoring to YOUR own standard?
Yep, pretty much what I have been saying all along.

Pretty much what I've been saying all along as well

Ken



And at least you are honest about that Ken, many atheist and skeptics are not.

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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby 1over137 » Sat Apr 23, 2016 1:25 am

Kenny wrote:
EssentialSacrifice wrote:
what the bible is describing is not what I would call God.



What would you call God ? what would it take in description and form to be called God, IYO ?

Among other things, fair treatment, wise decisions, and no imperfections according to my standards.

Ken


Hi Ken,
then maybe there rather should have been no world and people in it.
People breaking the rules - gone with them.

What do you think of it, Kenny?
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold
-- Psalm 18:2

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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby Kenny » Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:00 pm

1over137 wrote:
Kenny wrote:
EssentialSacrifice wrote:
what the bible is describing is not what I would call God.



What would you call God ? what would it take in description and form to be called God, IYO ?

Among other things, fair treatment, wise decisions, and no imperfections according to my standards.

Ken


Hi Ken,
then maybe there rather should have been no world and people in it.
People breaking the rules - gone with them.

What do you think of it, Kenny?

Naaaw Bad idea. As my Grandmother used to say; that would be like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Ken

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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby 1over137 » Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:05 am

Kenny wrote:
EssentialSacrifice wrote:
what the bible is describing is not what I would call God.



What would you call God ? what would it take in description and form to be called God, IYO ?

Among other things, fair treatment, wise decisions, and no imperfections according to my standards.

Ken


I have just listened to one sermon on Luke 23:32-46 which reminded me you, Kenny.

Luke 23:32-46 English Standard Version (ESV)

32 Two others, who were criminals, were led away to be put to death with him. 33 And when they came to the place that is called The Skull, there they crucified him, and the criminals, one on his right and one on his left. 34 And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”[a] And they cast lots to divide his garments. 35 And the people stood by, watching, but the rulers scoffed at him, saying, “He saved others; let him save himself, if he is the Christ of God, his Chosen One!” 36 The soldiers also mocked him, coming up and offering him sour wine 37 and saying, “If you are the King of the Jews, save yourself!” 38 There was also an inscription over him,[b] “This is the King of the Jews.”

39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him,[c] saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” 40 But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

The Death of Jesus

44 It was now about the sixth hour,[d] and there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour,[e] 45 while the sun's light failed. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two. 46 Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last.


If you are the King of the Jews, save yourself!

or...

If you are God be this way...

If you are God do this...

If you are God do that...



Kenny, if one wants to be closer to the truth (whatever that truth is), you know, it is better when one is humble, open, tries to see things from other perspectives, other point of views, not just though his narrow vision.

Let's be open, let's be humble, let's be really ready to rethink things.
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold
-- Psalm 18:2

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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby Kenny » Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:21 am

1over137 wrote:
Kenny wrote:
EssentialSacrifice wrote:
what the bible is describing is not what I would call God.



What would you call God ? what would it take in description and form to be called God, IYO ?

Among other things, fair treatment, wise decisions, and no imperfections according to my standards.

Ken


I have just listened to one sermon on Luke 23:32-46 which reminded me you, Kenny.

Luke 23:32-46 English Standard Version (ESV)

32 Two others, who were criminals, were led away to be put to death with him. 33 And when they came to the place that is called The Skull, there they crucified him, and the criminals, one on his right and one on his left. 34 And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”[a] And they cast lots to divide his garments. 35 And the people stood by, watching, but the rulers scoffed at him, saying, “He saved others; let him save himself, if he is the Christ of God, his Chosen One!” 36 The soldiers also mocked him, coming up and offering him sour wine 37 and saying, “If you are the King of the Jews, save yourself!” 38 There was also an inscription over him,[b] “This is the King of the Jews.”

39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him,[c] saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” 40 But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

The Death of Jesus

44 It was now about the sixth hour,[d] and there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour,[e] 45 while the sun's light failed. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two. 46 Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last.


If you are the King of the Jews, save yourself!

or...

If you are God be this way...

If you are God do this...

If you are God do that...



Kenny, if one wants to be closer to the truth (whatever that truth is), you know, it is better when one is humble, open, tries to see things from other perspectives, other point of views, not just though his narrow vision.

Let's be open, let's be humble, let's be really ready to rethink things.


So I should be humble, open, attempt to see things from other perspectives, be willing to rethink things? That’s how I got where I am today!

When I was christian, initially I refused to admit the possibility the bible could be wrong, I refused to consider a different point of view that was different from what the bible teaches. I had this narrow vision that my beliefs were right and all others were wrong.

It wasn’t until I made a sincere effort to find the truth that I was willing to admit to the possibility that I could be wrong, rethink things, and consider a different point of view, and that is what led me to become the skeptic I am today.

You should never assume that a person being humble, open, attempts to see things from another perspective, etc. that this will lead them to your point of view, doing so might actually take them away from it.

Ken

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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby 1over137 » Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:43 am

I never assume that Kenny. That is why I wrote that "whatever that truth is".

But one thing Kenny,
you claim what you claim about yourself but question is if it matches with your deeds. And I do not want to be your judge - I cannot be.
But it seems to me you can still improve on listening and trying to understand other views than your own.

We so far have opposite life journeys - me being "narrow minded" atheist, then unbeliever first, now Christian.

Peace,
Hana

P.S. It is good wanting to have a broader vision.
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold
-- Psalm 18:2

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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby Kenny » Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:03 am

1over137 wrote: one thing Kenny,
you claim what you claim about yourself but question is if it matches with your deeds. And I do not want to be your judge - I cannot be.
But it seems to me you can still improve on listening and trying to understand other views than your own.

It seems when 2 statements are made; if the 2nd statement begins with the word "But" the 2nd statement always discredits the first statement.

Ken

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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby 1over137 » Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:13 am

Kenny wrote:
1over137 wrote: one thing Kenny,
you claim what you claim about yourself but question is if it matches with your deeds. And I do not want to be your judge - I cannot be.
But it seems to me you can still improve on listening and trying to understand other views than your own.

It seems when 2 statements are made; if the 2nd statement begins with the word "But" the 2nd statement always discredits the first statement.

Ken

please, tell me how in friendly way without judging, express one's opinion
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold
-- Psalm 18:2

Kenny
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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby Kenny » Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:43 am

1over137 wrote:
Kenny wrote:
1over137 wrote: one thing Kenny,
you claim what you claim about yourself but question is if it matches with your deeds. And I do not want to be your judge - I cannot be.
But it seems to me you can still improve on listening and trying to understand other views than your own.

It seems when 2 statements are made; if the 2nd statement begins with the word "But" the 2nd statement always discredits the first statement.

Ken

please, tell me how in friendly way without judging, express one's opinion

I think too often we place too much emphasis on this silly idea that we shouldn't judge.

Ken


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