Help me out with this statement

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
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RickD
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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby RickD » Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:15 am

Kenny,

You say you lack a belief that God exists, and you claim there's evidence to prove a lack of belief?
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby EssentialSacrifice » Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:32 am

between this ...

There is plenty of evidence, just not the type of evidence that is going to convince you or other Christians like yourself. But unless I am trying to convert you or others to my way of thinking (which I am not) my evidence doesn't need to be convincing to anyone but myself

Ken


and this ...

RickD wrote:
You say you lack a belief that God exists, and you claim there's evidence to prove a lack of belief?


I'm very interested in how this thread rides itself out ! y:-? So Ken, what is this evidence and if you only have to satisfy your individual requirements for the existence or not of God, does that men it's all in your head ? alone ?
Without support, I'm afraid it does ... so your "plenty of evidence" y*-:) although shockingly self evident y:-? needs to be explained to the rest of us for clarification.
Trust the past to God’s mercy, the present to God’s love, and the future to God’s providence. -St Augustine

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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby Kenny » Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:36 am

EssentialSacrifice wrote:between this ...

There is plenty of evidence, just not the type of evidence that is going to convince you or other Christians like yourself. But unless I am trying to convert you or others to my way of thinking (which I am not) my evidence doesn't need to be convincing to anyone but myself

Ken


and this ...

RickD wrote:
You say you lack a belief that God exists, and you claim there's evidence to prove a lack of belief?


I'm very interested in how this thread rides itself out ! y:-? So Ken, what is this evidence and if you only have to satisfy your individual requirements for the existence or not of God, does that men it's all in your head ? alone ?
Without support, I'm afraid it does ... so your "plenty of evidence" y*-:) although shockingly self evident y:-? needs to be explained to the rest of us for clarification.

I know this is gonna sound like a cop out, but if I were to answer your question; it would probably derail this thread. I've had my hand slapped too many times in the past for derailing threads; perhaps you can start a new thread and I will be happy to answer any question you might have

Ken

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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby RickD » Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:52 pm

Ken,

You have my permission to answer in this thread. It's relevant to the discussion.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby Kenny » Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:04 pm

EssentialSacrifice wrote:between this ...

There is plenty of evidence, just not the type of evidence that is going to convince you or other Christians like yourself. But unless I am trying to convert you or others to my way of thinking (which I am not) my evidence doesn't need to be convincing to anyone but myself

Ken


and this ...

RickD wrote:
You say you lack a belief that God exists, and you claim there's evidence to prove a lack of belief?


I'm very interested in how this thread rides itself out ! y:-? So Ken, what is this evidence and if you only have to satisfy your individual requirements for the existence or not of God, does that men it's all in your head ? alone ?
Without support, I'm afraid it does ... so your "plenty of evidence" y*-:) although shockingly self evident y:-? needs to be explained to the rest of us for clarification.


I’ve never been the type to say I lack belief in God, I think I’ve been consistent with claiming what some call God may exist, but because I don’t call anything God, I am atheist. Some worship nature, the Sun, or other inanimate objects, In Rastafarian Haile Selassie was seen as the incarnation of Jesus and worshipped. In some sects of Hindu, Kumari is believed to be the incarnation of one of their Gods. These people are as human as you and I but are worshipped as God, so it would be silly to say what these people call God doesn’t exist. (Haile Selassie died in the 1970’s but I believe Kumari is still alive today)

You are Christian so all of that doesn’t matter; when you say God you mean the Christian God. One of many reasons I don’t believe in the Christian God is because I find his description to be a contradiction. You can’t be all good and do bad things. You can’t be all wise and do unwise things. You can’t be perfect but do imperfect things. When I look at his treatment of Adam and Eve, Job, People of Egypt, Noah, and many other actions and instructions of God described in the Bible, I see unfair treatment, unwise decisions, and lots of imperfections.
Of course I see the good and bad actions as subjective; with the standard being my own.
True: I am subjectively judging the actions of many years ago with the standards of today, and the moral code accepted by the men who wrote the scriptures is NOT the moral code we hold today, (and I believe we are better off because of it) but if he isn’t wise, good, or perfect, as Epicurus said; why call him God?

Ken

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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby EssentialSacrifice » Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:29 am

So Ken, just to be sure ... y:-/

There is plenty of evidence, = I see unfair treatment, unwise decisions, and lots of imperfections. ?
Trust the past to God’s mercy, the present to God’s love, and the future to God’s providence. -St Augustine

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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby Kenny » Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:56 am

EssentialSacrifice wrote:So Ken, just to be sure ... y:-/

There is plenty of evidence, = I see unfair treatment, unwise decisions, and lots of imperfections. ?

More like, unfair treatment, unwise decisions, and lots of imperfections is evidence to me that what the bible is describing is not what I would call God.

Ken

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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby EssentialSacrifice » Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:01 am

what the bible is describing is not what I would call God.



What would you call God ? what would it take in description and form to be called God, IYO ?
Trust the past to God’s mercy, the present to God’s love, and the future to God’s providence. -St Augustine

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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby Kenny » Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:53 am

EssentialSacrifice wrote:
what the bible is describing is not what I would call God.



What would you call God ? what would it take in description and form to be called God, IYO ?

Among other things, fair treatment, wise decisions, and no imperfections according to my standards.

Ken

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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby EssentialSacrifice » Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:11 am

Among other things = "plenty of evidence" ? y:-/ is there better description ?

fair treatment, wise decisions, and no imperfections ... as you've already said ... :? what more ?

according to my standards = it's all in your head ? alone ? ... is this right ?
Trust the past to God’s mercy, the present to God’s love, and the future to God’s providence. -St Augustine

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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby PaulSacramento » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:54 pm

There is no evidence for the lack of something existing.
There is only absence of evidence for it existing.

To prove that God does NOT exist one must first DEFINE God 100% and then prove that God doesn't exist.
I don't recall any atheist being able to define God in such a way.
I mean, the Christian view of God, for example, that without God there is NO existence AT ALL, pretty much sinks most, if not all, atheistic lines of thought to prove God doesn't exist.

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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby PaulSacramento » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:55 pm

Kenny wrote:
EssentialSacrifice wrote:
what the bible is describing is not what I would call God.



What would you call God ? what would it take in description and form to be called God, IYO ?

Among other things, fair treatment, wise decisions, and no imperfections according to my standards.

Ken

So they only thing you can disprove is a god accoring to YOUR own standard?
Yep, pretty much what I have been saying all along.

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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby Kenny » Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:00 pm

EssentialSacrifice wrote:Among other things = "plenty of evidence" ? y:-/ is there better description ?

fair treatment, wise decisions, and no imperfections ... as you've already said ... :? what more ?

I could go on about how God appears hidden to me, inconsistent messages from believers, etc. etc. but what it comes down to is I don't see any evidence the God of the bible exists, all I see are a bunch of people claiming God exist and I remain skeptical of their claims.

Ken

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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby Kenny » Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:01 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:
Kenny wrote:
EssentialSacrifice wrote:
what the bible is describing is not what I would call God.



What would you call God ? what would it take in description and form to be called God, IYO ?

Among other things, fair treatment, wise decisions, and no imperfections according to my standards.

Ken

So they only thing you can disprove is a god accoring to YOUR own standard?
Yep, pretty much what I have been saying all along.

Pretty much what I've been saying all along as well

Ken

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Re: Help me out with this statement

Postby RickD » Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:22 pm

I think oranges, if they existed, should be square, solid like an apple, and have a caramel center.

Therefore,

What Sunkist describes as an orange, I wouldn't call an orange.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony


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