It is obvious to all you are still developing your beliefs which I base upon your developing "objective" morality discussion, and your own responses to me here.
To re-visit your initial response to some of my questions (as you've done a circle or backtracked somewhat).
It is clear based on your responses that you do not embrace an objective morality, only a subjective and relative at that.Kenny wrote:You see it as theism, I just see it as common sense.Kurieuo wrote:Atheists often say that God would be morally wrong to allow pain and suffering in the world if He is all-powerful and all-benevolent (or say "send people to hell"). Yet, the reality of concepts are not physically sensed--including objective moral concepts that some things really are wrong while other things really are bad regardless of what anyone thinks. Such wreaks of Theism.
So your "common sense" morality is just yours, and another theirs. You are no better or worse than Hitler just like Mother Teresa. And so, if you call some wrong in some REAL sense, then you contradict your own beliefs. Because there is nothing real about morality besides your construct, or my construct or Hilter's construct, or Stalin's or Kim Jong-un's.
And so, my claim of Atheists here remains true in your instance. You talk of some "real" morality which you have no basis for in your own beliefs, and then retreat to plant your feet in the mid-air of subjectivism/relativism. So you have no logical basis on which to be morally repulsed by God's allowance of pain and suffering in your life or the world.
My response to this received nothing back, and was purposefully insulting to try and raise a point which I suppose is now mute.Kenny wrote:Can you prove we are anything other than?Kurieuo wrote:Atheists often claim to be free thinkers, while embracing that we're the product of entirely physical processes and could not be other than what we are (Determinism).
Nonetheless, it seems obvious that you believe we all have beliefs. You believe Theists are somewhat responsible for their beliefs in God/"gods". Persons are humans according to you (while I don't see why you seem to limit "person" to "human" rather than define it more openly) -- but it seems clear in your concept of "person" that there is a very real "you" and a very real "me" such that we are to some degree accountable for our beliefs and actions.
And as such, you disagree with Determinism and that is something that makes you logically inconsistent with your Physicalism.
You, as an Atheist who'd embrace all that really exists is physical, such is inconsistent with "your lack of a belief in God" because the "you" in "your" doesn't really exist. Therefore "you" don't really believe anything. The physical processes usurp the "you" in determining whatever your inexplicable mysterious consciousness appears to believe or think of itself.
That is a complex introductory thought, so try to think on it a little if at first you don't understand what I'm saying.
Regarding an Atheist belief-set, I think it becomes obvious that certain presuppositions exist in even the most base "Atheism" definition. There are several embedded beliefs even in your own definition of an Atheist. Someone else might question why you now see "humans" as "persons" and what it is you see as "human", etc... which starts adding an even more complex set of beliefs to your Atheism...
So I'll end here. It appears that you really don't know, and haven't full thought through your beliefs but I wish you well on your journey and pray you find the Way.