The meaning of immaterial life

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
Justhuman
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The meaning of immaterial life

Postby Justhuman » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:03 am

One aspect that keeps popping up is that according to some in a materialistic universe life has little or no meaning, or is useless. That in such a universe there cannot be love or empathy, for those are immaterial aspects of life. And since immaterial does not exist in a materialistic universe, love cannot exist.

But I wonder, isn't life in a Materialistic Universe so much more precious than in a theistic (God created) universe? Since in a materialistic universe there is no redemption, nor a soul or spirit that keeps on 'living', one has to do it with only this fleeting moment. Everyone has one chance to live his or her live. Take away that chance and that particular life is lost. No second chance.
Realizing that volatility makes each life intensely important and worth while to cherish and carress, more so than the partly immortal 'life' of the theistic universe.

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Re: The meaning of immaterial life

Postby PaulSacramento » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:29 am

Justhuman wrote:One aspect that keeps popping up is that according to some in a materialistic universe life has little or no meaning, or is useless. That in such a universe there cannot be love or empathy, for those are immaterial aspects of life. And since immaterial does not exist in a materialistic universe, love cannot exist.

But I wonder, isn't life in a Materialistic Universe so much more precious than in a theistic (God created) universe? Since in a materialistic universe there is no redemption, nor a soul or spirit that keeps on 'living', one has to do it with only this fleeting moment. Everyone has one chance to live his or her live. Take away that chance and that particular life is lost. No second chance.
Realizing that volatility makes each life intensely important and worth while to cherish and carress, more so than the partly immortal 'life' of the theistic universe.


I don't think it is a case of a materialist life has no meaning or no love, I think it is a case that IF YOU believe that life is just here by ONLY random chance and has no purpose other than existing that it can be hard to find real meaning and true love UNLESS you are exposed/brought up to believe in those things IN SPITE of a materialistic world view.

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Re: The meaning of immaterial life

Postby Justhuman » Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:22 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
Justhuman wrote:One aspect that keeps popping up is that according to some in a materialistic universe life has little or no meaning, or is useless. That in such a universe there cannot be love or empathy, for those are immaterial aspects of life. And since immaterial does not exist in a materialistic universe, love cannot exist.

But I wonder, isn't life in a Materialistic Universe so much more precious than in a theistic (God created) universe? Since in a materialistic universe there is no redemption, nor a soul or spirit that keeps on 'living', one has to do it with only this fleeting moment. Everyone has one chance to live his or her live. Take away that chance and that particular life is lost. No second chance.
Realizing that volatility makes each life intensely important and worth while to cherish and carress, more so than the partly immortal 'life' of the theistic universe.


I don't think it is a case of a materialist life has no meaning or no love, I think it is a case that IF YOU believe that life is just here by ONLY random chance and has no purpose other than existing that it can be hard to find real meaning and true love UNLESS you are exposed/brought up to believe in those things IN SPITE of a materialistic world view.

That's a lot of IF, ONLY, UNLESS. and SPITE.
With that kind of phrasing you are creating a VERY narrow margin for a SPECIFIC type of materialism belief. With such phrasing one can rule out most, if not any kind, of argumentation.

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Re: The meaning of immaterial life

Postby Kurieuo » Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:33 am

What is "meaning", and by that I mean an "ultimate meaning"? What properties does ultimate meaning have? Once one understands and/or agrees about what ultimate meaning is, then whether particular worldviews have it can be more easily discussed.

I will say here, that it is largely agreed so far as I'm aware and read philosophically speaking, that there is no real ultimate meaning to be had for us if when God is removed from the picture, if their is no telos (i.e., end goal for us), if we all will die, if noone will be around to remember.
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Re: The meaning of immaterial life

Postby RickD » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:16 am

Justhuman wrote:One aspect that keeps popping up is that according to some in a materialistic universe life has little or no meaning, or is useless. That in such a universe there cannot be love or empathy, for those are immaterial aspects of life. And since immaterial does not exist in a materialistic universe, love cannot exist.

But I wonder, isn't life in a Materialistic Universe so much more precious than in a theistic (God created) universe? Since in a materialistic universe there is no redemption, nor a soul or spirit that keeps on 'living', one has to do it with only this fleeting moment. Everyone has one chance to live his or her live. Take away that chance and that particular life is lost. No second chance.
Realizing that volatility makes each life intensely important and worth while to cherish and carress, more so than the partly immortal 'life' of the theistic universe.

You can keep telling yourself that if you think it'll help.
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9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

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Re: The meaning of immaterial life

Postby 1over137 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:48 pm

I try to understand you.
Are you saying that in materialistic universe, there would be love? Because life is sacred?
Would someone even die for someone else (greatest love shown) in such a world?
Why? Isn't the life of the one, who is going to sacrify his life, sacred?
What is love in materialistic world? What it is?
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

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Re: The meaning of immaterial life

Postby Kenny » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:05 pm

1over137 wrote:I try to understand you.

I know this wasn’t directed to me, but I will give my $0.02 worth.
1over137 wrote:Are you saying that in materialistic universe, there would be love?

Of course! Humans are material, and humans express love.
1over137 wrote:Because life is sacred?

Yes.
1over137 wrote:Would someone even die for someone else (greatest love shown) in such a world?

People have a long history of giving up their lives for others
1over137 wrote:Why? Isn't the life of the one, who is going to sacrify his life, sacred?

It doesn’t mean that their life isn’t sacred, it just means they chose to give their life to save another
1over137 wrote:What is love in materialistic world? What it is?

Love is pretty much the same whether one believes in a materialistic world or one believes in a world beyond materialism.

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Re: The meaning of immaterial life

Postby PaulSacramento » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:14 am

What is the justification for life being sacred in a materialistic world view?

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Re: The meaning of immaterial life

Postby 1over137 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:51 am

Kenny wrote:People have a long history of giving up their lives for others


In our world. Prove it is materialistic.
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold
-- Psalm 18:2

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Re: The meaning of immaterial life

Postby Kenny » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:43 am

PaulSacramento wrote:What is the justification for life being sacred in a materialistic world view?

People will have their own reasons for labeling something sacred; it will usually vary from person to person.

Ken

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Re: The meaning of immaterial life

Postby Kenny » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:46 am

1over137 wrote:
Kenny wrote:People have a long history of giving up their lives for others


In our world. Prove it is materialistic.

I cannot prove to your satisfaction. But hypothetically speaking; what is to prevent a person living in a materialist world from giving up their life from someone else?

Ken

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Re: The meaning of immaterial life

Postby Kurieuo » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:30 pm

Kenny wrote:
1over137 wrote:
Kenny wrote:People have a long history of giving up their lives for others


In our world. Prove it is materialistic.

I cannot prove to your satisfaction. But hypothetically speaking; what is to prevent a person living in a materialist world from giving up their life from someone else?

Nothing. What is love? I'm not sure something so qualitatively immaterial can be answered in a Materialist world.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: The meaning of immaterial life

Postby Kenny » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:30 pm

Kurieuo wrote:
Kenny wrote:
1over137 wrote:
Kenny wrote:People have a long history of giving up their lives for others


In our world. Prove it is materialistic.

I cannot prove to your satisfaction. But hypothetically speaking; what is to prevent a person living in a materialist world from giving up their life from someone else?

Nothing. What is love? I'm not sure something so qualitatively immaterial can be answered in a Materialist world.

As long as there are people living in this "Materialist world" there will be answers.

K

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Re: The meaning of immaterial life

Postby Kurieuo » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:43 pm

Kenny wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
Kenny wrote:
1over137 wrote:
Kenny wrote:People have a long history of giving up their lives for others


In our world. Prove it is materialistic.

I cannot prove to your satisfaction. But hypothetically speaking; what is to prevent a person living in a materialist world from giving up their life from someone else?

Nothing. What is love? I'm not sure something so qualitatively immaterial can be answered in a Materialist world.

As long as there are people living in this "Materialist world" there will be answers.

And what are people; what is a "person"? Oh, you mean those physical beings with consciousness who have a will, intentionality, can love and what-not. :lol: Sorry, I know that is probably lost on you and only amusing to myself.
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Re: The meaning of immaterial life

Postby Kenny » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:52 pm

Kenny wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
Kenny wrote:
1over137 wrote:
In our world. Prove it is materialistic.

I cannot prove to your satisfaction. But hypothetically speaking; what is to prevent a person living in a materialist world from giving up their life from someone else?

Nothing. What is love? I'm not sure something so qualitatively immaterial can be answered in a Materialist world.

As long as there are people living in this "Materialist world" there will be answers.

Kurieuo wrote:And what are people;

People are material beings who rule Earth.
Kurieuo wrote:what is a "person"?

Singular for people.
Kurieuo wrote:Oh, you mean those physical beings with consciousness who have a will, intentionality, can love and what-not. :lol:

Yes.
Kurieuo wrote:Sorry, I know that is probably lost on you and only amusing to myself.

Amusing to myself as well


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