Key Questions for Atheists and Agnostics

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
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Key Questions for Atheists and Agnostics

Postby Philip » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:50 am

Q For atheists: If you self-identify as an atheist, what are you not an agnostic - what separates how you believe from the stated definition of what an agnostic believes?

Q for agnostics: If you self identify as an agnostic, what makes you not an atheist?

Qs for atheists and agnostics:

- Have you sincerely sought out evidences for God's existence?

- What evidence do you think most convinces you there is no proof or at least good evidences that God might exist?

- Do you CARE if God exists - would it matter to you if He does?

- If you ever realized that the God of the Bible existed, what would be your response to Him?

- Have you ever tried a personal, private experiment to sincerely see if God "answers the phone" - ever tried to see if there might possibly be a God to respond to your experiment?

- Does it bother or irritate you that others have faith in God?

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Re: Key Questions for Atheists and Agnostics

Postby Kenny » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:16 pm

Philip wrote: Q For atheists: If you self-identify as an atheist, what are you not an agnostic - what separates how you believe from the stated definition of what an agnostic believes?

An Agnostic is one who believes there is no way of knowing whether God exists or not. I believe just as you can’t be “X” and not “X” at the same time, if God is defined as “X” but behaves in a way that is not “X”, to me that would prove that he is not what is defined as God.

Q for agnostics: If you self identify as an agnostic, what makes you not an atheist?

Philip wrote: Qs for atheists and agnostics:

- Have you sincerely sought out evidences for God's existence?

Yes. During my Christian years, when I felt I was losing my faith due to my natural skepticism, I sincerely looked for evidence because the possibility of becoming a non-believer frightened me

Philip wrote: - What evidence do you think most convinces you there is no proof or at least good evidences that God might exist?

The fact that nobody has been able to find any

Philip wrote:- Do you CARE if God exists - would it matter to you if He does?

It depends. If he were the type of God to provide eternal torture because I used the freewill he gave me to do my will rather than his own, I would rather such a God not exist. If he were the type who just sat back and live and let live without any interference, then it wouldn’t matter.

Philip wrote:- If you ever realized that the God of the Bible existed, what would be your response to Him?

I would attempt to find out who he is, what he wants, and if any of the religions of today actually got it right.

Philip wrote:- Have you ever tried a personal, private experiment to sincerely see if God "answers the phone" - ever tried to see if there might possibly be a God to respond to your experiment?

If “answers the phone” means prayer, yes. During my Christian years I spent much time praying looking for answers before eventually giving up.

Philip wrote:- Does it bother or irritate you that others have faith in God?

Are you kidding me??? I’ve had people tell me that their faith in God is the only thing preventing them from committing every atrocity imaginable….. and that it’s barely holding them back! Some people need more faith.

Ken

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Re: Key Questions for Atheists and Agnostics

Postby Byblos » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:09 am

Kenny wrote:
Philip wrote: Q For atheists: If you self-identify as an atheist, what are you not an agnostic - what separates how you believe from the stated definition of what an agnostic believes?

An Agnostic is one who believes there is no way of knowing whether God exists or not. I believe just as you can’t be “X” and not “X” at the same time, if God is defined as “X” but behaves in a way that is not “X”, to me that would prove that he is not what is defined as God.

Q for agnostics: If you self identify as an agnostic, what makes you not an atheist?

Philip wrote: Qs for atheists and agnostics:

- Have you sincerely sought out evidences for God's existence?

Yes. During my Christian years, when I felt I was losing my faith due to my natural skepticism, I sincerely looked for evidence because the possibility of becoming a non-believer frightened me

Philip wrote: - What evidence do you think most convinces you there is no proof or at least good evidences that God might exist?

The fact that nobody has been able to find any

Philip wrote:- Do you CARE if God exists - would it matter to you if He does?

It depends. If he were the type of God to provide eternal torture because I used the freewill he gave me to do my will rather than his own, I would rather such a God not exist. If he were the type who just sat back and live and let live without any interference, then it wouldn’t matter.

Philip wrote:- If you ever realized that the God of the Bible existed, what would be your response to Him?

I would attempt to find out who he is, what he wants, and if any of the religions of today actually got it right.

Philip wrote:- Have you ever tried a personal, private experiment to sincerely see if God "answers the phone" - ever tried to see if there might possibly be a God to respond to your experiment?

If “answers the phone” means prayer, yes. During my Christian years I spent much time praying looking for answers before eventually giving up.

Philip wrote:- Does it bother or irritate you that others have faith in God?

Are you kidding me??? I’ve had people tell me that their faith in God is the only thing preventing them from committing every atrocity imaginable….. and that it’s barely holding them back! Some people need more faith.

Ken



:shakehead:

This is precisely why questions like these are pointless. We've had countless discussions with kenny on the nature of God, on the existence of evil, natural or otherwise, and why that does not contradict an all-loving God (in fact it supports it). And yet he comes back with absolute gem like this one:

kenny wrote:If he were the type of God to provide eternal torture because I used the freewill he gave me to do my will rather than his own, I would rather such a God not exist. If he were the type who just sat back and live and let live without any interference, then it wouldn’t matter.


I mean, really, what else can I say other than simply shake my head in disbelief, if for no other reason than the sheer time wasted discussing these subjects with him. Just :shakehead: .
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Re: Key Questions for Atheists and Agnostics

Postby PaulSacramento » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:11 am

It depends. If he were the type of God to provide eternal torture because I used the freewill he gave me to do my will rather than his own, I would rather such a God not exist. If he were the type who just sat back and live and let live without any interference, then it wouldn’t matter.


Dude...I can't believe that you still think this after all your time here.

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Re: Key Questions for Atheists and Agnostics

Postby Philip » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:20 am

Of course, my questions weren't just for Ken, but for all atheist and agnostics here. I truly want to read, in their own words, answers to questions that can help understand them better. Actually, Ken's answers, particularly his strawman god answer, as it in NO way accurately describes the God of the Bible, but one of his own making.

But for the rest of the agnostics and atheists here, by all means, please weigh in - as while I realize while there are some commonalities, each of you has reasons for why you self-identify as you do, and it might enlightening to the Christians and theists in the room.

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Re: Key Questions for Atheists and Agnostics

Postby Hortator » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:42 am

Question #0 for atheists and agnostics : Why are you posting on a website called "God and Science" ?

Also I like to refer to agnostics as "atheists who own a thesaurus"

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Re: Key Questions for Atheists and Agnostics

Postby Kenny » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:31 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
It depends. If he were the type of God to provide eternal torture because I used the freewill he gave me to do my will rather than his own, I would rather such a God not exist. If he were the type who just sat back and live and let live without any interference, then it wouldn’t matter.


Dude...I can't believe that you still think this after all your time here.


I realize your perspective of God is not one who provides eternal hell fire for those who do wrong, but not everybody shares your perspective on God, because there are lots of people whose perspective does provide Hell fire for such souls. Obviously I wasn’t commenting on what you believe, but what others believe. If there is one thing I’ve noticed, there is a lot of inconsistency when it comes to the details of theism.

Ken

PS I noticed of all the half dozen or so replies I made, this one is the only one everyone is commenting on.

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Re: Key Questions for Atheists and Agnostics

Postby PaulSacramento » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:57 am

PS I noticed of all the half dozen or so replies I made, this one is the only one everyone is commenting on.



Why do you think that is?

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Re: Key Questions for Atheists and Agnostics

Postby PaulSacramento » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:00 pm

I realize your perspective of God is not one who provides eternal hell fire for those who do wrong, but not everybody shares your perspective on God, because there are lots of people whose perspective does provide Hell fire for such souls. Obviously I wasn’t commenting on what you believe, but what others believe. If there is one thing I’ve noticed, there is a lot of inconsistency when it comes to the details of theism.


There is inconsistency in almost anything, why would Theism be any different?

If a person has the ability to do good and bad and choose to do bad, why do you have a problem with them paying for what they do?

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Re: Key Questions for Atheists and Agnostics

Postby Byblos » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:01 pm

Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
It depends. If he were the type of God to provide eternal torture because I used the freewill he gave me to do my will rather than his own, I would rather such a God not exist. If he were the type who just sat back and live and let live without any interference, then it wouldn’t matter.


Dude...I can't believe that you still think this after all your time here.


I realize your perspective of God is not one who provides eternal hell fire for those who do wrong, but not everybody shares your perspective on God, because there are lots of people whose perspective does provide Hell fire for such souls. Obviously I wasn’t commenting on what you believe, but what others believe. If there is one thing I’ve noticed, there is a lot of inconsistency when it comes to the details of theism.


And I believe 2 + 2 = 5. Does that mean you ought to entertain the idea that my arithmetic is sound?

Kenny wrote:PS I noticed of all the half dozen or so replies I made, this one is the only one everyone is commenting on.


From that one reply it is obvious you are arguing against a straw man god. House of cards and all ...
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Re: Key Questions for Atheists and Agnostics

Postby Philip » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:30 pm

Ken: I realize your perspective of God is not one who provides eternal hell fire for those who do wrong, but not everybody shares your perspective on God, because there are lots of people whose perspective does provide Hell fire for such souls. Obviously I wasn’t commenting on what you believe, but what others believe. If there is one thing I’ve noticed, there is a lot of inconsistency when it comes to the details of theism.


Ken, you appear to be, per your reference to the god of "eternal torture," referencing the Christian God of the Bible. The reality is, your free will - EVERYONE'S free will - does not include the ability to choose what ALL of the available choices before you will include, nor do we get to choose or to avoid the consequences God has set up that are tied to our free choices made, from amongst the choices made available. And as for THE ultimate choice that is tied to the kind of eternity we will receive, per the Bible, everyone rejecting God does so freely. So, when an unbeliever rejects God/Jesus/Holy Spirit, they are freely choosing the option AND it's entire, inclusive package: Freely reject Christ / Eternal punishment of their own making - those rejecting God/Christ will not, in the eternity to come, subsequently get to repent and embrace God - nor will they ever desire to do anything differently - they'll only want to keep themselves as their own little god. Oh, of course, they will be shocked that Scripture is true and upset and angry that God actually exists, that their IS an eternal punishment - but there will be no turn-about to want to love God. Their only desire will only be to escape the punishment and go back to a reality they control and can tolerate.

Remember, per the Bible, Hell can be avoided. Eternal joy can be had in it's place, per something so simple even a child can receive it/Him/Jesus. But the pardon offer does have an expiration date - and it's the same one as your physical one. Even on and around this earth, there are sins considered worthy of death or a life-long sentence. Imagine how God, a perfect, Holy, and perfectly just Being, sees what He hates (ALL sin!). And He hates it so bad that His remedy for it was for Him to personally go through a physical death unimaginably horrible, and unimaginable - how incredible, that a God would choose such a terrible death so as to save His created beings. But He desires to save creatures with His Image within them, and that have also received His Spirit.

The above - that's the Biblical God! Explain why you'd reject Him!

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Re: Key Questions for Atheists and Agnostics

Postby Kenny » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:57 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:
I realize your perspective of God is not one who provides eternal hell fire for those who do wrong, but not everybody shares your perspective on God, because there are lots of people whose perspective does provide Hell fire for such souls. Obviously I wasn’t commenting on what you believe, but what others believe. If there is one thing I’ve noticed, there is a lot of inconsistency when it comes to the details of theism.


There is inconsistency in almost anything, why would Theism be any different?

From what I know of theism, I wouldn’t expect it to be any different

PaulSacramento wrote:If a person has the ability to do good and bad and choose to do bad, why do you have a problem with them paying for what they do?

It’s not that I have a problem with people paying for their bad deeds, it’s just that in the context of the question I was answering, I might have a problem with what is judged a bad deed by God, which means it would matter to me if he existed or not.

PaulSacramento wrote:
PS I noticed of all the half dozen or so replies I made, this one is the only one everyone is commenting on.



Why do you think that is?

I suspect that is the only part they disagree with.

Ken

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Re: Key Questions for Atheists and Agnostics

Postby Kenny » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:59 pm

Philip wrote:
Ken: I realize your perspective of God is not one who provides eternal hell fire for those who do wrong, but not everybody shares your perspective on God, because there are lots of people whose perspective does provide Hell fire for such souls. Obviously I wasn’t commenting on what you believe, but what others believe. If there is one thing I’ve noticed, there is a lot of inconsistency when it comes to the details of theism.


Ken, you appear to be, per your reference to the god of "eternal torture," referencing the Christian God of the Bible. The reality is, your free will - EVERYONE'S free will - does not include the ability to choose what ALL of the available choices before you will include, nor do we get to choose or to avoid the consequences God has set up that are tied to our free choices made, from amongst the choices made available. And as for THE ultimate choice that is tied to the kind of eternity we will receive, per the Bible, everyone rejecting God does so freely. So, when an unbeliever rejects God/Jesus/Holy Spirit, they are freely choosing the option AND it's entire, inclusive package: Freely reject Christ / Eternal punishment of their own making - those rejecting God/Christ will not, in the eternity to come, subsequently get to repent and embrace God - nor will they ever desire to do anything differently - they'll only want to keep themselves as their own little god. Oh, of course, they will be shocked that Scripture is true and upset and angry that God actually exists, that their IS an eternal punishment - but there will be no turn-about to want to love God. Their only desire will only be to escape the punishment and go back to a reality they control and can tolerate.

Remember, per the Bible, Hell can be avoided. Eternal joy can be had in it's place, per something so simple even a child can receive it/Him/Jesus. But the pardon offer does have an expiration date - and it's the same one as your physical one. Even on and around this earth, there are sins considered worthy of death or a life-long sentence. Imagine how God, a perfect, Holy, and perfectly just Being, sees what He hates (ALL sin!). And He hates it so bad that His remedy for it was for Him to personally go through a physical death unimaginably horrible, and unimaginable - how incredible, that a God would choose such a terrible death so as to save His created beings. But He desires to save creatures with His Image within them, and that have also received His Spirit.

The above - that's the Biblical God! Explain why you'd reject Him!


I have never rejected God, I’ve only rejected various claims people have made about God.

Ken

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Re: Key Questions for Atheists and Agnostics

Postby RickD » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:29 pm

Kenny wrote:
I have never rejected God, I’ve only rejected various claims people have made about God.


Kenny,

I thought you claimed that you used to be a Christian, and now you claim to be an atheist?
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Re: Key Questions for Atheists and Agnostics

Postby Kenny » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:47 pm

RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:
I have never rejected God, I’ve only rejected various claims people have made about God.


Kenny,

I thought you claimed that you used to be a Christian, and now you claim to be an atheist?


Yes. Initially I accepted many of the claims people made about God, but eventually I rejected the claims. As I said countless times, if God communicated to me in a way that I recognized/understood; I would accept as real.

Ken


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