Bernie Sanders: Being a Christian Should Disqualify from Office???!!!

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thatkidakayoungguy
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Re: Bernie Sanders: Being a Christian Should Disqualify from Office???!!!

Post by thatkidakayoungguy »

How would it be if an atheist ran for office? I don't see any thing wrong in that in itself, but it would probably stir up a turd. Then you'd have the radical atheists who might try to get in and ban all religion, but i don't think they'd get in as it'd be a violation of the Constitution.
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Re: Bernie Sanders: Being a Christian Should Disqualify from Office???!!!

Post by edwardmurphy »

Communist movements were basically secular religions. They eliminated the Church dogma and replaced it with State dogma. The Soviets, for example, marched under the banner of nationalism (a concept that's supposed to be foreign to communism), not atheism. The goal was the destruction of Germany and the establishment of a buffer zone between the West and Russia for the security, prosperity, and glory of the Fatherland. Atheism was incidental.

Also, atheism never aligns with anything. It's just an idea, not a movement all its own. Christians, being dogmatic, seem to struggle with that idea.
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Re: Bernie Sanders: Being a Christian Should Disqualify from Office???!!!

Post by edwardmurphy »

Atheists run for office all the time, but I've never heard of any atheist trying to ban religion. That's another Christian misconception. Some atheists work to chip away at the special privileges religions sometimes get, but that's about as far as it gets. When ones special treatment is under threat it probably feels like persecution, but it's not.
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Re: Bernie Sanders: Being a Christian Should Disqualify from Office???!!!

Post by Kurieuo »

edwardmurphy wrote:Bernie had a point. Our government is secular, and it's reasonable to question whether a person who goes to the trouble to publicly state that Muslims are damned to Hell would treat all citizens equally.
Actually, your US government, like Australia's isn't secular. If the government is meant to serve the people, and the people are made up of Christians and the like, then it is stupid to say the government shouldn't have any Christian representation or be comprised of Christians themselves.

That our western governments like the US and my own are secular is a perpetrated myth and misconception based upon faulty logic that "secularism" is somehow neutral to religion. Yet, one only needs to look over the last century to see it is far from neutral, and often leads to oppression of people, religion and Christians as such.

So then, when you have Sanders giving some Christian a third degree, trying to give an inquisition of sorts, put words into his mouth, twist and give a distorted picture of Christians, such is raminscient of a secularism and communism such as Stalin and Lenin. I'm sure Sanders would love nothing more than such socialist ideals.

Read up on the Russian revolution and what happened to the Orthodox Church during such. Don't be so naive Ed. Secularism isn't neutral, but is a seed that has lead to much oppression and evil in the past, more so than even perhaps perpetrated by Islam (who at least wear their beliefs on their sleeve to be seen by those who have eyes).
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Re: Bernie Sanders: Being a Christian Should Disqualify from Office???!!!

Post by RickD »

Ed,

Just when I thought you couldn't be more ignorant about something other than Islam, you help me learn something new. You are just as ignorant about atheism and Christianity.
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Re: Bernie Sanders: Being a Christian Should Disqualify from Office???!!!

Post by edwardmurphy »

K, nobody said the government shouldn't have any Christians in it. In point of fact, it's jam packed with Christians, and always has been. Thats not a problem - a representative democracy should be representative. Sanders' argument, at least as I see it, was with regard to neutrality. Our government is full of Christians, but it's NOT a theocracy, and if a member of the government finds himself in a position where the law is in conflict with his faith the expectation is that the law comes first. As I said, when a guy goes to the trouble to publicly state that Muslims are damned it's reasonable to question his ability to be neutral. The response was "Waaaaah! Bernie asked a question that we don't like! This is persecution! Waaaaah!" I'm tired of that response.

Regarding the Russian Civil War, the nobility and the Orthodox Church (which were pretty much the same thing) made their bed and eventually they had to lie in it. If they hadn't been such bastards for so long there probably wouldn't have been a communist revolution.

Rick, you frequently respond to my posts with nonsense like "You're ignorant," but you never seem interested in supporting your insult. if I know so little and you know so much then feel free to illuminate me.
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Re: Bernie Sanders: Being a Christian Should Disqualify from Office???!!!

Post by Philip »

Ed: As I said, when a guy goes to the trouble to publicly state that Muslims are damned it's reasonable to question his ability to be neutral. The response was "Waaaaah!
First of all, Bernard is a major hypocrite. He stated, "Sen. Sanders: "'Muslims do not simply have a deficient theology. They do not know God because they have rejected Jesus Christ, His Son, and they stand condemned.' Do you believe that that statement is Islamophobic?" If he asked a Muslim pastor whether Christians are accepted into heaven by Allah - what do you think he would say???!!! The Quran teaches that Christians will not be accepted by Muslims. So, should Muslims not be allowed to hold office, as they are biased in their beliefs concerning Christians? And not ONLY Christians, but anyone else who is not a committed follower of Allah and the Quran. Would Bernie have stated THAT? Of course not! So, that's just one aspect of this.

Ed, do you even know the context of the article Vought wrote (from which Bernie took out of context)? The context was, there was a liberal professor at Wheaton College - Vought's alma mater. They had put forth a termination process based upon the controversial statements of a liberal professor, Dr. Larycia Hawkins, seeking solidarity with Muslims and her argument that Christians "worship the same God.” Vought's article was defending HIS college's rightful termination of a professor that did not hold to the required beliefs of a private CHRISTIAN-based college. Not only that, but it's not as if Vought wrote that article when he was a public official or in high government office - when he wrote it, he had been serving as a VP for the Heritage Action Group, a conservative policy advocacy organization. So, he wrote the article when he was a PRIVATE citizen (who had never held office) standing up for the rights of a PRIVATE school, HIS own alma mater, based upon his personal spiritual beliefs - he didn't have the right to do that???!!! BTW, I'm pretty sure, Vought would have felt a private Muslim school, with stated criteria for professors, could have rightfully terminated a Muslim professor that came out as a Christian. Same deal!

So, why is Bernard so interested? Because Vought is Trump’s nominee for deputy director of the White House Office of Management and Budget." Bernard is essentially saying, those with Christian beliefs are not qualified for high public office. Notice Sanders' immense disrespect (he was shouting at Vought, who respectfully and honestly answered) and his question that is irrelevant to the issue as to Vought's nomination for office: "I understand that Christianity is the majority religion, but there are other people of different religions in this country and around the world. In your judgment, do you think that people who are not Christians are going to be condemned?" Notice, Sanders doesn't ask him if he could faithfully uphold his office's responsibility under the law, and to treat all people of all faiths (or no faith) equally? No, Bernard asks him an agenda-laden question unrelated to his office, but to his faith! A question, again, he would not have asked of a nominee of any other faith background. And he used an article out of context for the issue at hand, written when Vought was a private citizen. Do all those Christians in the Houses of Congress believe what THEIR churches teach about salvation - or not? Are the rest of those Christian congressmen - are they likewise unqualified for office???

Guess Sander's is both blind and stupid, not to mention woefully ignorant of the constitution and history of office holders in this land. In fact, in his atheism, Bernie is the great exception to the long history of those in America who have held office - so, should the same be asked of him holding office, after all, there are many Christians in Vermont, of whom Bernard also represents! Notice, Vought never said that those of other faiths should not be allowed to hold office, as Bernie Boy has asserted.

So, Ed, it's not just some unimportant issue that Christians are whining over - it's great alarm that a major force within the Democratic Party is willing to use religious bigotry for political gain. And he'd no doubt appoint as many people in courts and other offices that think likewise dangerously as he does, given the chance. He obviously doesn't respect either Christians or the constitution - making him VERY dangerous. He should be exposed with a loud shout!
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Re: Bernie Sanders: Being a Christian Should Disqualify from Office???!!!

Post by thatkidakayoungguy »

edwardmurphy wrote:Atheists run for office all the time, but I've never heard of any atheist trying to ban religion. That's another Christian misconception. Some atheists work to chip away at the special privileges religions sometimes get, but that's about as far as it gets. When ones special treatment is under threat it probably feels like persecution, but it's not.
Your last sentence I agree with. There is some support to get rid of religion, but I doubt it'll happen. https://richarddawkins.net/2012/11/how- ... -religion/
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Re: Bernie Sanders: Being a Christian Should Disqualify from Office???!!!

Post by B. W. »

edwardmurphy wrote:Communist movements were basically secular religions. They eliminated the Church dogma and replaced it with State dogma. The Soviets, for example, marched under the banner of nationalism (a concept that's supposed to be foreign to communism), not atheism. The goal was the destruction of Germany and the establishment of a buffer zone between the West and Russia for the security, prosperity, and glory of the Fatherland. Atheism was incidental.

Also, atheism never aligns with anything. It's just an idea, not a movement all its own. Christians, being dogmatic, seem to struggle with that idea.
... A leftist wacko who follows the leftist news dribble and believes all the lies about republicans wanting to destroy the country, starve kids, ban Muslims, throw granny over the cliff, all about corporate profiteering, exploits workers, homophobic, destroyers of healthcare and a host of other bigoted lies - like never Trump, Trump evil, Trump, etc and etc must stop now as it...

...bore fruit, today, 6-14-2017 around 8am EST

Rep. Mark Walker says gunman targeted congressional baseball practice 'to kill as many Republican members as possible

http://theweek.com/speedreads/705653/re ... s-possible

And this...LEFT-WING TWITTER CELEBRATES SHOOTING OF REP. SCALISE

https://news.grabien.com/story-left-win ... ep-scalise]

Leftist Propaganda does have intended consequence...

This propaganda must be denounced by all news media such as all Soros control media - MSNBC NBC ABC CBS CNN and all local stations as well as all Democrats...

Not by a flimsy feel good apology but actual fruit filled and seen by stopping all vicious and hate-filled rhetoric spewed from Nancy Pelosie, Chuck Summer and all their cronies must stop and also stop it with the witch hunt after Session's and Trump as well as stop obstructing legislative process and stop insulting and lying to the American people.

However, I do not think this will happen instead we will hear Democrats use only useless platitudes with no substance instead...and go back spreading true rage and hate built upon false narratives... as well as leftist media types

I mentioned this before - Civil War - just might happen in the USA again and I cringe at the thought of this.
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Re: Bernie Sanders: Being a Christian Should Disqualify from Office???!!!

Post by thatkidakayoungguy »

I can definitely see a civil war happening again-based on racial tensions, police brutality, too much political correctness, and the ever rising standard of living. It's scary, even I can see it.
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Re: Bernie Sanders: Being a Christian Should Disqualify from Office???!!!

Post by edwardmurphy »

Yes, B.W., it would be a good idea to tone down the rhetoric. ALL the rhetoric.This wasn't the first time that a crazy person shot some people, in part because our pundits and leaders painted them as evil, and it won't be the last. But blaming it all on the liberals is stupid, irresponsible, and asinine.
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Re: Bernie Sanders: Being a Christian Should Disqualify from Office???!!!

Post by Philip »

The worst thing is this pop-culture "Shakespeare" play in NY - clearly tying its popular draw to making a "metaphorical" but clear reference to Trump being assassinated, per the play's "creative" adaption. This is unconscionable stuff! Insinuating anything connecting the assassination of a specific living political figure to whatever fictional work - how clever - how EVIL! Look at who's flocking to it - people like Alec Baldwin, etc. If the left continues its blatant hate tactics, things will get VERY bad. Because they have no reasonable or helpful ideas, and as they have lost in the political arena - all many of them have left is hate and rage. And it's gonna split the Democrats even further, as the moderate ones will leave the crazies - they'll have no choice. And that is exactly what Bernie Boy is counting on - pulling enough angry young people to join in with the foaming at the mouth crowd. And when they lose even more, who knows what they are capable of. These are people who have NO intention of reaching across the isle with productive dialogue - as they think in terms of a scorched earth approach. That's how people with rage think.

Whatever one thinks of Trump, one must admit that he has exposed the hateful thinking and extreme attitudes of the Left like have never previously been done. This country is still, across the heartland, the South, still has much more of a center/right mentality. People swearing like loonies, talking blatant socialism, unwilling to denounce the nuts looting in Berkley, shouting down conservatives or trying to eliminate their right to speech, right to acting out their faith-based values, and now those with Bernie, on a mission against people of faith - the Democrats throwing in with this bunch will just further marginalize themselves and lose. They still are deluded that they lost because of the Russians, or that "most who voted for Trump are racists and homophobes." Vast millions who voted for Trump don't like a lot of stuff about his background and crudeness, and preferred a better candidate - which just shows you how much more they despised Hillary and the progressive left. What you will begin to see that Democrats in states away from places like CA and NY are going to begin looking for other choices.
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Re: Bernie Sanders: Being a Christian Should Disqualify from Office???!!

Post by melanie »

I'm quite a fan of Bernie Sanders. Smart, compassionate guy. Intellectuals should not be overlooked over brass, agenda grabbing loud mouths. Give me an intellectual argument any day over fear based poor excuse of policy. But the religious arguments fall short with me.
Quite frankly I'm quite pleased that our candidates in Australia are lack lustre as they don't pretend on either party to be playing an outdated religious game,
Policy is and should be on the political agenda anything otherwise is a cheap shot at votes. On either end of the scale. It's disingenuous.
Never before has democracy been played with such cheap shots. It's a failing system not by design but by application and the US is the example on the world stage.
Religion has no part in Politics.
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Re: Bernie Sanders: Being a Christian Should Disqualify from Office???!!!

Post by edwardmurphy »

So Phil, why is it wrong to use a play to highlight a political issue?

And while we're asking why, why was it okay to portray Barack Obama as Julius Caesar in 2012, but not Donald J. Trump in 2017? Where was all that conservative outrage then?

It's either okay to kill a sitting President in a play, or it's not. If it's not okay then it's ALWAYS not okay, but if it was okay in 2012 then it's okay now. This is fake outrage put out by cynical, hypocritical liars who know better but don't care.

I suspect that my message would be more palatable from a conservative American, so here's an article from the American Conservative.
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Re: Bernie Sanders: Being a Christian Should Disqualify from Office???!!!

Post by Philip »

Ed: So Phil, why is it wrong to use a play to highlight a political issue?
It's not. What is wrong is to tie an assassination to a living political figure, with all of the implications of that. Are people thinking Trump - or ANY president (unless they are a Hitler figure) is worthy of assassination???!!! Is that a symbolism that is moral to portray?
Ed: And while we're asking why, why was it okay to portray Barack Obama as Julius Caesar in 2012, but not Donald J. Trump in 2017? Where was all that conservative outrage then?
I'm not familiar with that - but if it was done in the very same manner, I'd say it's a terrible things. Right and wrong doesn't change per one's race, political or whatever other affiliation.
Ed: It's either okay to kill a sitting President in a play, or it's not. If it's not okay then it's ALWAYS not okay, but if it was okay in 2012 then it's okay now. This is fake outrage put out by cynical, hypocritical liars who know better but don't care.
Ed: I suspect that my message would be more palatable from a conservative American, so here's an article from the American Conservative.
Not for TRUE conservatives of conscience! Wrong is WRONG!

So, Ed, in the current context, as to what Bernie said about Christians being unsuited for public office, with "art" like the NY play showing Trump's ("Caesar's") assassination, the dumb redhead with the severed Trump head - are these not terribly wrong? Are they not dangerous? And you can plug in any background, person or political affiliation and I would denounce these same kinds of things as horribly wrong and dangerous.

And, obviously, most of the media wants to selectively play up the crazies on the right, but not on the left. That same charge can be accurately leveled at many in the conservative media - but to a far lesser degree. The media doesn't do NUANCES, it mostly does marketing - playing to it's perceived audience and demographics - it's about ratings, circulation and money. Truth and balance - forgetaboutit! Moral relativism rules!
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