Bernie Sanders: Being a Christian Should Disqualify from Office???!!!

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edwardmurphy
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Re: Bernie Sanders: Being a Christian Should Disqualify from Office???!!!

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Philip wrote:It's not. What is wrong is to tie an assassination to a living political figure, with all of the implications of that. Are people thinking Trump - or ANY president (unless they are a Hitler figure) is worthy of assassination???!!! Is that a symbolism that is moral to portray?
Have you read/seen Julius Caesar? It's hardly pro-assassination. The Senators kill Caesar because they think he's going to become a tyrant and it ends up destroying the Republic. Besides, it's art. I'm far less concerned about this kind of thing than I am about fake news stories about how Hillary Clinton is running a human trafficking and pedophilia ring out of her campaign headquarters. Good at makes you think. Fake news just enrages people.
Philip wrote:I'm not familiar with that - but if it was done in the very same manner, I'd say it's a terrible things. Right and wrong doesn't change per one's race, political or whatever other affiliation.
Same theater group, same play. Obama was murdered by Tea Part Republicans rather than Trump by liberal Democrats, but otherwise it's the same.

I don't have a problem with either play, really. I agree with the guy who wrote that American Conservative article. The real scandal is that the cowardly sponsors caved to a fake outrage campaign.
Philip wrote:Not for TRUE conservatives of conscience! Wrong is WRONG!
Glad to hear it, but unfortunately it seems like your news sources are withholding information that doesn't fit their narrative. I'd love to see more conservatives of conscience calling out hypocrisy wherever it rears its ugly head, but in order to do that you have to know about it. If you get all of your news from conservative sources you'll never have all of the facts, so the other side will always seem incompetent, stupid, or evil. Context is important.
Philip wrote:So, Ed, in the current context, as to what Bernie said about Christians being unsuited for public office, with "art" like the NY play showing Trump's ("Caesar's") assassination, the dumb redhead with the severed Trump head - are these not terribly wrong? Are they not dangerous? And you can plug in any background, person or political affiliation and I would denounce these same kinds of things as horribly wrong and dangerous.
First off, Sanders wasn't talking about "Christians" or "public office," he was talking about one guy and a high level government job. And as a guy who wants my secular government to stay secular I appreciate his line of questioning, even if it was pointless, which I'm pretty sure it was.

So no, I don't think that's wrong or dangerous, but then I'm an atheist in America. I'm used to hostility, distrust, and irritating questions being directed my way. As I previously said, there are states, today in America in 2017, that literally have laws barring people like me from giving sworn testimony or holding public office. Sure, they're not enforced, but they're still there and they're indicative of a great deal distrust and hostility coming our way from the Christian majority. So when conservative Christians lose their [poop] because a Senator that they hate asks a question that offends them I'm not impressed. I'm not sure if the outrage is contrived or if you guys are really that thin-skinned, but what Bernie said isn't a big deal. I don't understand why conservative Christians feel so insecure about their place in America.

Regarding the play, as I said, I was fine with it in 2012 and I'm fine with it now.

The dumb redhead? No, she's harmless, too. It was in poor taste and not funny, but harmless. It's no worse than that time Ted Nugent went on Mike Huckabee's show and called for President Obama to be assassinated and the Huckster, righteous man of God that he is, just let it slide.

As I said, what concerns me is fake news, and hyperbolic hysteria from pundits who present themselves as journalists. Bernie's comments, Trump Caesar, and Kathy Griffin's gaffe aren't nearly as big a deal as is the fact that there are pundits who make a living taking incidents like those and using them to create fear, distrust, and outrage.
Philip wrote:And, obviously, most of the media wants to selectively play up the crazies on the right, but not on the left. That same charge can be accurately leveled at many in the conservative media - but to a far lesser degree. The media doesn't do NUANCES, it mostly does marketing - playing to it's perceived audience and demographics - it's about ratings, circulation and money. Truth and balance - forgetaboutit! Moral relativism rules!
Please, Phil. FOX News knew about the 2012 version of Julius Caesar. They knew that the conservative outrage over liberals making a show of assassinating Trump was complete [nonsense]. They knew that, Phil, but they cranked the outrage generator to 11 and did their damndest to infuriate people about it. They didn't give a [poop] about the truth, they just wanted the rage. And I've been watching them do precisely that for years. And they're tame compared to Limbaugh, Alex Jones, and all of the angry bloggers who give B.W. and Abe their "news."

But I agree that nobody does much with nuance. Worst is that they tend to ignore context and history. Everything is the latest and greatest or the worst thing ever. The political party that lost the last election is always doomed forever, and every scandal is unprecedented, even if the same thing happened ten years ago. It's inexcusably lazy journalism.
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Re: Bernie Sanders: Being a Christian Should Disqualify from Office???!!!

Post by Philip »

Ed: Have you read/seen Julius Caesar? It's hardly pro-assassination. The Senators kill Caesar because they think he's going to become a tyrant and it ends up destroying the Republic. Besides, it's art. I'm far less concerned about this kind of thing than I am about fake news stories about how Hillary Clinton is running a human trafficking and pedophilia ring out of her campaign headquarters. Good at makes you think. Fake news just enrages people.
Ed, that's a pure dodge! I could care less that the play isn't pro-assassination. NO one would give two hoots about it if it didn't clearly position the Trump figure in the play. That is beyond dangerous, especially in this age of madness - crazies inspired by both the far right and the far left - doesn't matter which. Also, YOU fail to do nuances and stay on topic! I'm not talking about FoxNews, or fake Hillary stories. "ART" - are yo serious? What you are saying is, it doesn't matter what is stirred up politically in the minds of nutjobs - or even just feeding people's foaming-at-the-mouth hatred of Trump. Let the play stand on it's own - if people want to see parallels, you don't have to connect very dangerous dots to do it. But I will say, I would have the same reaction if this were one of the Clintons portrayed in a play, Obama, whatever progressive - it's irresponsible, dangerous, and it's just wrong! It's sad that you won't admit that.
Ed: The real scandal is that the cowardly sponsors caved to a fake outrage campaign.
Ed, call if fake if you desire to - but millions ARE sickened by this play's pandering to a political demographic in a gruesomely dangerous way - linking ANYTHING symbolically to murdering a sitting president - are you mad???!!! I'm glad that some sponsor did perceive that this play has touched a nerve and has greatly offended many in their target audience - which means they can lose money. They aren't advertisers but for one thing: To make money! A sponsorship hurts their bottom line - they're business people. And if in the process someone actually got a clue to see this is dangerous and wrong - even better!
Ed: First off, Sanders wasn't talking about "Christians" or "public office," he was talking about one guy and a high level government job.
Ed, give me a freaking break! Sanders was saying something that he clearly believes about ANY Christian holding office - that their spiritual views of people's eternal destiny is bigotry, and disqualifies them from office. Again, when written, the fellow held NO government job, nor had previously! Nice try - but Bernie exposed himself and his views, and views he would love to legally see keep Christians from office. You are not being honest about what Bernard said, or what he said his reasoning was. If he can apply that to that person, why would he not apply it to every other Christian either in office or seeking office? Please, answer that, Ed! Because you know it's true!
Ed: And as a guy who wants my secular government to stay secular I appreciate his line of questioning, even if it was pointless, which I'm pretty sure it was.
So, then Ed, you don't want ANY Christians in office??? Would YOU apply that same line of reasoning to those office holders or seekers of other faiths? Muslims? Jews? What, do you only want people in office who have NO faith views? You think that should be a constitutional mandate - no one of faith with a view other than one that ALL people everywhere will go to heaven should be allowed to run for or hold office? To hell with whatever faith millions might hold - you think it disqualifies them???!!! Because if you apply Bernie's logic to ANYONE of ANY other faith - that's where it ends up. Scary!!! VERY!
Ed: Bernie's comments, Trump Caesar, and Kathy Griffin's gaffe aren't nearly as big a deal as is the fact that there are pundits who make a living taking incidents like those and using them to create fear, distrust, and outrage.
What you don't care about is what kind of hellstorm fires these people are laying the embers for! Do you really think millions aren't upset per simply the acts or contents themselves - they don't need SPIN to be upset! We can see the verbatim comments, video, and prolifically so, of these things. Your fake news stance denies reality - I hate these kinds of things and stunts the uber left does - but I don't hate the people behind them. I see them as woefully misguided and biased, and more focused upon gaining money and fame, and milking the actions - far more than they care about the seething hatreds they are irresponsibly unleashing - not to mention upon those crazies who see extreme violent actions as a legitimate response. Also, there are clearly plenty of rabid haters on the far right, likewise spewing poison with great potential to cause violence and mayhem - actually, I see very little differences between those far right and far left, per the destruction and hatreds their deeds and words are stirring up. Those of us who care about harmony in our country need to reel them in, encourage them to cease such terrible rhetoric and hate.

Please tell me what outrage is due to fake news about the play, Griffin's stunt? Is there something about those things we've not accurately heard? Because your fake news narrative suggests that people have bought the spin - yet, in these cases, they didn't need spin to cause outrage. People are outraged because they know such things have significant potential to inspire violence and hatred, and at the least, evermore fractured relations between people of differing political views. But they don't care about such things - ah, "it's art, fake news outrage, etc." Please!
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Re: Bernie Sanders: Being a Christian Should Disqualify from Office???!!!

Post by Philip »

Violence to be concerned about: http://dailycaller.com/2017/06/16/this- ... d-blowing/

All "fake" news???!!!

Even far-right, demento Ted Nugent sees the danger in the continued fanning of politically charged hatred's flames, pouring gas on already-existing embers - whether he's sincere in followup, or not: http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/20 ... oting.html

I hope a LOT more people of influence will begin to realize there is a way to disagree and criticize without demonizing those they disagree with, or hating them. What always happens - look at the French Revolution - the radicals seething with hatred and violence began to turn on each other as well - with hotheads trying to out "bad-boy" the other radicals in ever horrid extremes. Course, we're a long way from that - probably the closest America has been to that was in the 1860s.
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