Are radical Muslims a minority?

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PaulSacramento
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Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by PaulSacramento »

Ben Shapiro states numbers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg

He defines radical as those that openly want Sharia Law applied everywhere and those that condone honour killings in some cases and those that have no feelings or positive towards Terrorists ( Bin Laden) and those that condone suicide bombings as being acceptable under certain conditions.
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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by RickD »

PaulSacramento wrote:Ben Shapiro states numbers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg

He defines radical as those that openly want Sharia Law applied everywhere and those that condone honour killings in some cases and those that have no feelings or positive towards Terrorists ( Bin Laden) and those that condone suicide bombings as being acceptable under certain conditions.
I guess as he defines "radical", it seems pretty accurate.
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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by PaulSacramento »

Words are interesting because radical is, in this context:

a : very different from the usual or traditional : extreme
b : favoring extreme changes in existing views, habits, conditions, or institutions
c : associated with political views, practices, and policies of extreme change
d : advocating extreme measures to retain or restore a political state of affairs the radical right

I think that we, and by that I man those that are being effected by this issues, would agree that:
Believing that honour killings and suicide bombings CAN be, AT TIMES, acceptable, as being a radical ( extreme) viewpoint.
Imposing Sharia Law OUTSIDE of a Muslim country would be viewed as extreme.
Have positive or no real feelings about a self-professed and known killer would also be viewed as radical by most I would think.
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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by RickD »

Paul,

I think if we use your definition a. "very different from the usual or traditional: extreme", then we could even make the argument that the peaceful Muslims are actually the ones who are radical, because peaceful Muslims who don't want to conquer, are very different from the traditional.

I'd just ask one question: WWMD?
John 5:24
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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by PaulSacramento »

An interesting point Rick.
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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by edwardmurphy »

It's so bizarre listening to you going on and on about how Muslims want to conquer the world while somehow overlooking the fact that Christians did, in fact, literally conquer the world. Why do you suppose English is an official language in India? Why do you suppose people speak English in North America, Spanish in South America, and French in much of Africa? Who do you think drew up the borders for all of these African and Middle Eastern countries where the population is made up of competing ethnic groups? Why do you imagine there are American, French, and British troops deployed all over the East but no Muslim troops in the West? Nothing happens in a vacuum. History matters.
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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by RickD »

edwardmurphy wrote:It's so bizarre listening to you going on and on about how Muslims want to conquer the world while somehow overlooking the fact that Christians did, in fact, literally conquer the world. Why do you suppose English is an official language in India? Why do you suppose people speak English in North America, Spanish in South America, and French in much of Africa? Who do you think drew up the borders for all of these African and Middle Eastern countries where the population is made up of competing ethnic groups? Why do you imagine there are American, French, and British troops deployed all over the East but no Muslim troops in the West? Nothing happens in a vacuum. History matters.
Ed,

I have no problem with calling out anyone for doing wrong. If you've paid attention to many of my posts, you'll see that I call out Christians quite frequently.

The difference here is that Islam calls for this. Christianity doesn't.

My contention is that Islam is inherently evil. Violent. Look at Muhammad. Then look at Christ.

Hopefully you can see the difference.

If you want to start a thread about people conquering the world in the name of Christ, go ahead.
Or maybe a topic comparing and contrasting Muslims and Christians when it comes to violence.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by PaulSacramento »

Rick's point is that while Christianity was used as excuse for colonial expansion, Islam calls for it.
Christians may have conquered much of the world but that was IN SPITE of what Christ taught and preached not because of Him.
Muslims do so because they are TOLD to and BECAUSE of what the Koran says.
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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by PaulSacramento »

The other way to look at it is that we should be more concerned about what is going NOW rather than 500 years ago.
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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by thatkidakayoungguy »

Bc of the combination of religion and politics in Europe, it was easy for colonizers to go around and justify their actions in the name of God. Christianity teaches to spread itself but in a peaceful way.
Other times political/economic actions were viewed as separate from religion, and "Christians" would kill and pillage entire people groups. Same principle was justified for slavery.
The Koran, though, says to conquer.
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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by Hortator »

RickD wrote: My contention is that Islam is inherently evil. Violent. Look at Muhammad. Then look at Christ.
He can't. That's why the discussion is a dead end.
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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by Philip »

Ed: It's so bizarre listening to you going on and on about how Muslims want to conquer the world while somehow overlooking the fact that Christians did, in fact, literally conquer the world.
All manner of people who have self-identifed as "Christians," in the distant past, have done all manner of terrible things. Clearly! How many of them were more than merely cultural Christians - who knows. Pagan Greeks and Romans - yep, they conquered a lot of earth, too. But it is ridiculous to bring such past things up because we are discussing the here and NOW - what groups of people are doing what horrific things NOW??? That's the issue! Those who want to use the "Crusaders" excuse today - pointing to sins of the past for which they weren't even alive to have witnessed, to murder civilians today who had absolutely NOTHING to do with it. Get real, Ed - that has not one thing to do with what is being discussed here. It's a political slight of hand that attempts to understand and justify why hideous things are going on TODAY. People want to murder civilians in marketplaces, blow legs and arms off off babies, little children and grandmothers - and PLENTY of them Muslim victims, BTW - I could care less WHAT freaking excuses such people are using. It is pointless to try to understand evil people from a moral/rational point of view - because that's not their mindset or basis of understanding. It is totally pointless to bring up stuff like that.

I've not seen one person here say they are against Muslims in general - but only CERTAIN violent Muslims and groups. Islam - yep, from a Scriptural point of view and basis, one would have to say Islam has evil origins and intents. All one need do is read the Quran to see so. Who are the troublemakers - those using a very literal interpretation of passages that can only reasonably be interpreted in such ways. And much of the Muslim world does not ascribe to such views - and in fact, despises those Muslims who do. Here, we're only concerned with Islamists that are intent upon atrocities - it is foolish to even entertain their absurd reasoning. Notice, such groups don't say, if you would sincerely address this or that, we would stop our murderous ways. Many of them see Jihad as an ongoing mission from God - with the Jews, Christians and the Western world as their perennial targets. These people cannot be negotiated with on a moral, reasonable basis. They understand but one thing - self preservation and brute force! Anyone who doesn't understand this - God help us if they are in positions of power. And none of that is to say nations shouldn't treat other countries and regions with respect - definitely, they should. But the fools who think you can negotiate on a reasonable basis with psychos of murder and mayhem - they're wasting their breath with me!
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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by PaulSacramento »

We need more moderate Muslims like this Iman:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRPzkB5mr1U
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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by edwardmurphy »

PaulSacramento wrote:Rick's point is that while Christianity was used as excuse for colonial expansion, Islam calls for it.
Christians may have conquered much of the world but that was IN SPITE of what Christ taught and preached not because of Him.

Muslims do so because they are TOLD to and BECAUSE of what the Koran says.
I'm not impressed with this argument. What the hell difference does it make what Christ says about anything if, when push comes to shove, his supposed followers consistently ignore his teachings, or worse yet, use a selective reading of the Bible to justify slavery, imperialism, and wars of conquest? And what does it matter if Mohamed advocated expansionist policies if his followers generally mind their own fences?
PaulSacramento wrote:The other way to look at it is that we should be more concerned about what is going NOW rather than 500 years ago.
This is the kind of comment that I'm talking about when I start ranting about history and context.

I'm not talking about events 500 years ago. The British relinquished control of their colonies in the aftermath of World War II. The French hung on until the 1960s. Portugal didn't give up on Mozambique and Angola until 1975. As I said, who do you think drew the current boundaries of many Middle Eastern and African countries? For example, Iraq has Sunni, Shi'a, and Kurdish populations jammed uncomfortably into one country because the British drew the borders. That decision and many like it, made by Western Christians who didn't give a [love] about local history, religion, ethnicity, or politics, directly impact the world we live in today.

What's happening NOW is rooted in what's been happening for the last few hundred years. It cannot be separated. History matters.
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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by Philip »

Other than learning from the past, in how we conduct ourselves in the present, per our policies, etc., we can't do a dang thing to change our past. Handwringing and blame, assertions and accusations past actions justify Islamists (and other) groups' present and ongoing hatreds and present committed horrors over their anger over their version of the past - clueless and total waste of time to keep blathering on about it or even listening to it. And those who use it as an excuse for such groups' ongoing plots of evil and mayhem have ZERO credibility! Those who want us to do more than learn from our past have a totally wrong focus. I believe precisely what these evil groups say they intend to do to us (and long have) as long as they exist. Meaning, we must do everything in our power to prevent them, and to eliminate them wherever necessary. If they will renounce terror, reach out in sincere peaceful overtures, then we can talk (and verify). Until then, they are forcing our hands. The cause of the conflict TODAY, is the ongoing horrors and naked aggressions of terrorist actions. People need to face that fact and stop insisting some altruistic actions and policy changes of the West would change such groups. That is an enormous fantasy! To deny these Islamist terrorist groups are evil people following evil beliefs - totally clueless. Such people will continue to try to kill us, no matter WHAT things we might do differently. Again, those willing to commit the kinds of atrocities groups like ISIS and Al Queda have sick sensibilities - don't try to rationalize their actions or figure them out with our society's best moral sensibiliities. They will hate and try to kill us regardless of our best treatment.
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