Are radical Muslims a minority?

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Philip
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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by Philip »

Ed: Your "relevant links" were to an anti-Islamic website. I'm not going to get the lowdown on Pepsi from a Coke rep.
Ed, you are in deep denial. A) The site is not anti-Muslims, but anti the violence inherent in the Quran's teachings; B) You don't like the messenger that points to what the messages actually say from their SOURCE(S). All of those outtakes are found in the Quran, and/or historically factual - so trying an Islamic PR man's disingenuous dismissal by essentially saying, "Don't look at what we are actually saying and teaching, and what our holy book actually teaches, but look at the people who are shining a light on what we believe and teach, because they don't like what we believe, merely because they hate Muslims." So, Ed, are you going to face up to what is actually in the teachings that originated within Islam, Muhammad, the Quran, or are you going to echo some Islamic apologist's PR statements? Shoot the exposing entity because of what you don't want to face - which is what the ORIGINAL messenger says and what that reveals.

As for the website, they are NOT haters of Islam, and in fact specifically explain this. There are not religious at all, but secular. From the website: "Islam is not defined by anyone's opinion, but by the Quran, Hadith and Sira. These historical texts are readily available in the information age, meaning that anyone can go straight to the source from any referenced article on this site." Absolutely! They have not written OPINION, but merely have reflected what is taught, believed, and how it is interpreted - in history, but more importantly, TODAY, in direct, original quotes from the Quran and key Islamic teachers!

From the website's "About Us":


TheReligionofPeace.com (TROP) is a pluralistic, non-partisan site concerned with Islam's political and religious teachings according to its own texts. The purpose is to counter whitewashing and explain the threat that Islam truly poses to human dignity and freedom, as well as the violence and dysfunction that ensues as a direct consequence of this religion's supremacist ideology.

While apologists of Islam generally use fragments of Quran verses, weaker hadith (Islam's version of "fake news") and contemporary opinion to soothe Western concerns, TROP explains the context, cites early biographers, and posts references only to those Hadith collections deemed most reliable (Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim and Abu Dawud).

TROP is not associated with any organization. The site does not promote any religion, but it is not hostile to religion. We generally support the rights of atheists, Christians, Hindus, Jews, women, consenting adults, Muslims and anyone else on the planet to live as they wish without violating the rights of others.

TROP strongly condemns any attempt to harm or harass any Muslim anywhere in the world over their religion. Every human is entitled to be treated as an individual and judged only by his or her own words and deeds. (see About Muslims).

TROP also denounces any act of vandalism against mosques or other property, including juvenile attempts to offend Muslims by desecrating copies of the Quran.

The best way of discrediting the Quran is to tell non-Muslims what it actually says about them.


So, Ed, please address what the Quran actually says and how key Islamic teachers interpret it - as TROP asserts, it is not our OPINION that makes this religion's teachings so dangerous and promoting of violence, but what the teachings actually say!
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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by edwardmurphy »

A website that aims, as it's primary goal, to expose the threat that Islam exposes to peace and human dignity is clearly anti-Islamic. That makes their interpretation suspect.
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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by RickD »

edwardmurphy wrote:A website that aims, as it's primary goal, to expose the threat that Islam exposes to peace and human dignity is clearly anti-Islamic. That makes their interpretation suspect.
It's only suspect, if it's wrong. And since you haven't read the Koran to see if the website is accurate, you're wasting time with irrelevant posts.

You best get a readin. :D

Quran in English
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24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by Stu »

edwardmurphy wrote:A website that aims, as it's primary goal, to expose the threat that Islam exposes to peace and human dignity is clearly anti-Islamic. That makes their interpretation suspect.
What of a website who's sole goal is to expose the threat of Nazism to peace and human dignity. Is it also suspect?
You're just making excuses.
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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by edwardmurphy »

False equivocation, Stu.
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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by PaulSacramento »

The Saudi's not lining up for the moment of silence in Australia because it isn't part of their culture, is a prime example of the things the Muslim world MUST address in order to fix this huge problem that will only get worse, and before someone pulls that "what's the big deal", I ask this:
If it isn't a big deal, why not do it as a sign or respect and, ore importantly, a sign of solidarity against a horrific act.
At least an apology was made BUT, considering all that had happened, the offer by the Australians to the Saudis should NEVER have been rejected.
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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by PaulSacramento »

edwardmurphy wrote:False equivocation, Stu.
Equivocation ("to call by the same name") is an informal logical fallacy. It is the misleading use of a term with more than one meaning or sense (by glossing over which meaning is intended at a particular time). It generally occurs with polysemic words (words with multiple meanings).

Albeit in common parlance it is used in a variety of contexts, when discussed as a fallacy, equivocation only occurs when the arguer makes a word or phrase employed in two (or more) different senses in an argument appear to have the same meaning throughout.[1][2]

It is therefore distinct from (semantic) ambiguity, which means that the context doesn't make the meaning of the word or phrase clear, and amphiboly (or syntactical ambiguity), which refers to ambiguous sentence structure due to punctuation or syntax.[3]

A common case of equivocation is the fallacious use in a syllogism (a logical chain of reasoning) of a term several times, but giving the term a different meaning each time.

Examples[edit]
A feather is light.
What is light cannot be dark.
Therefore, a feather cannot be dark.
In the above example distinct meanings of the word "light" are implied in contexts of the first and second statements.

All jackasses have long ears.
Carl is a jackass.
Therefore, Carl has long ears.
Here the equivocation is the metaphorical use of "jackass" to imply a stupid or obnoxious person instead of a male donkey.


No, not really.
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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by RickD »

Stu wrote:
edwardmurphy wrote:A website that aims, as it's primary goal, to expose the threat that Islam exposes to peace and human dignity is clearly anti-Islamic. That makes their interpretation suspect.
What of a website who's sole goal is to expose the threat of Nazism to peace and human dignity. Is it also suspect?
You're just making excuses.
That's a good comparison Stu.

What ed doesn't realize, is that he's committing a fallacy when he dismisses an argument, based on who is making the argument, instead of the argument itself.

There's no logic that says that only because someone is against Islam, that they can't be correct in their argument against Islam.

What's strange, is that ed is usually the one pointing out these kinds of inconsistencies in other people's posts.
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24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by PaulSacramento »

According to Ed, any website this is focused on it's "Mandate" makes it's interpretation of it's mandate, suspect.
So much for all those pro-evolution sites...
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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by Philip »

Ed, I think what you will find, if you study and research what is that link, that it is accurate as to what is in the Quran, how it is widely interpreted, and what Islamic clerics are widely teaching from it. And if people really believe such teachings are god's instructions to them - really, that should be especially frightening to everyone. One can easily see how, especially, young, angry men can be manipulated into putting the words and teachings into action - as they begin to perceive that THEY take Allah and his word seriously, and thus should act as inflamed to. Understanding what is actually in the Quran is the beginning of understanding it's evil and hateful view of non-Muslims - or OTHER Muslims that one's spiritual leaders insist are one's enemies. Again, millions of Sunnis hate the Shiites. The number of Muslims killed by Western nations, over the past 40 years, pales in comparison to the vast number of Muslims killed by other Muslim sect vs. sect violence. Look at the Iranians, in their war vs. Iraq - sending waves of children across minefields and to battle. Seething hate that their holy book teachings lay the foundation for.

When one finds an ideology that teaches dangerous things, that can justify all manner of atrocities - we should all be glad that such organizations are trying to shed light upon the dangers. Being anti-Islam is not the same thing as being anti-Muslim persons. But being against ANYONE of ANY faith that is inciting or partaking in violence and killing - yeah, we should all be anti-such persons!
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Re: Are radical Muslims a minority?

Post by Kurieuo »

edwardmurphy wrote:Damn it...

Here's the thing - I don't know much about Islam, and what I do know is history, not religion. Reading between the lines of the comments here, I don't think you guys know much about Islam, either. Those of you who claim to seem to have gotten your information from anti-Islamic propagandists. You wouldn't think it was fair if I got all of my information on Christianity from evilbible.com*, and by the same token I'm skeptical of anyone who cites jihadwatch.com as a source.

So I guess the obvious conclusion is that I'm going to have to go to the source. I'm going to have to read the stupid Koran so that I can decide for myself. This sucks. I hate reading holy texts, but I care about the truth, so I'll do it. Damn it.
Ed, you claim you don't know anything about Islam, but you do know its history. Please explain to me what that history is?

Second, how can you read between any lines, what lines are you seeing that you're reading between? You claim to not know much about Islam, so any lines you see are at best skewed towards your liberal biases (please don't say you don't have them, or that you're centrist or something, because noone here will believe you -- even if you believe such. You're about as centrist as BW only at the opposite end of the scale).

Third, how do you know whether or not any websites would be anti-Islam propaganda? Propaganda means "information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view." And yet, to know such is propaganda and not truth, would require you knowing about Islam. You claim to know nothing about Islam, so for all you know you've swallowed the ACTUAL propaganda hook, line and sinker.

So then, the obvious conclusion, is you really don't know anything about Islam. This obviously places you in a woefully inadequate position to criticise anyone who criticises Islam. So then, if you wish to defend Islam, and truly think the propagandists are those who reveal core teachings of Islam as violent and supporting of terrorism and the like, then I encourage you to read up, train yourself, and defend what you see is the non-propaganda view. Try to do so, and test those here in their own claims you see as misleading about Islamic teachings. Until, and unless you do, you should just remain quiet in your ignorance as to who is spouting off propaganda because to do so is folly.
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