Trump and the Wall

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ultimate777
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Trump and the Wall

Post by ultimate777 »

If Trump builds his wall on the Rio Grande:


Does he get Mexico to let him build it south of the Rio Grande? If so how does he do it? If not, how does he keep our side of the Rio Grande? Can it be built down the middle of the Rio Grande? I may be away from the computer for a week or two, so I may reprise this when I am back. It might help me to find it if you all keep it active:)
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Re: Trump and the Wall

Post by Philip »

All of that is logistics. He and we need to do whatever is most effective to keep people from pouring over our border. Everyone needs to get in line, come in legally or not at all. Period.
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Re: Trump and the Wall

Post by RickD »

Philip wrote:All of that is logistics. He and we need to do whatever is most effective to keep people from pouring over our border. Everyone needs to get in line, come in legally or not at all. Period.
That's racist and xenophobic.
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edwardmurphy
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Re: Trump and the Wall

Post by edwardmurphy »

RickD wrote:That's racist and xenophobic.
Yeah, it is a bit, but that misses the point.

First off, people aren't "pouring over our border." Illegal immigration is actually down. They're not stealing our jobs, either. The jobs that Trump's base want back were lost primarily due to automation. A wall isn't going to keep your corporate overlords from replacing you and your buddies with robots.

Second, a big wall isn't going to prevent people from sneaking in, it's just going to make it more difficult. That's fine - it should be difficult - but there's a major cost-benefit issue. The wall will cost who knows how many billions of dollars to build and billions more to maintain. There are far better uses for that money. Things like airports, bridges, ports, railroads, and power grid improvements will help our economy and pay for a themselves over time. The wall will just suck up billions of tax dollars anually forever. One would think the supposedly fiscally conservative party would grasp that, but apparently they got their cojones snipped during the last election cycle. Pity.

And finally, only about half of all illegals sneak in from Mexico. The rest simply overstay their visas. The wall does nothing to prevent that, which brings us back to the cost-benefit issue. We're talking about an awful lot of money for half a solution.

Long story short, it's a classic big government boondoggle that will fail to solve half of a non-existent problem while costing the taxpayers untold billions and lining the pockets of contractors with connections. It's precisely the kind of thing that Republicans always accused Democrats of doing.
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Re: Trump and the Wall

Post by abelcainsbrother »

Trump has not even negotiated with Mexico yet about the trade defecit,but when he does? Mexico will pay for the wall and there will be plenty of money left over to go towards improving America's infrastructure.Remember,Trump thinks like a businessman,not a politician.But their free-ride off of America is going to stop because Trump is putting America and the American people first,something both parties refuse to do.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.
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Re: Trump and the Wall

Post by abelcainsbrother »

edwardmurphy wrote:
RickD wrote:That's racist and xenophobic.
Yeah, it is a bit, but that misses the point.

First off, people aren't "pouring over our border." Illegal immigration is actually down. They're not stealing our jobs, either. The jobs that Trump's base want back were lost primarily due to automation. A wall isn't going to keep your corporate overlords from replacing you and your buddies with robots.

Second, a big wall isn't going to prevent people from sneaking in, it's just going to make it more difficult. That's fine - it should be difficult - but there's a major cost-benefit issue. The wall will cost who knows how many billions of dollars to build and billions more to maintain. There are far better uses for that money. Things like airports, bridges, ports, railroads, and power grid improvements will help our economy and pay for a themselves over time. The wall will just suck up billions of tax dollars anually forever. One would think the supposedly fiscally conservative party would grasp that, but apparently they got their cojones snipped during the last election cycle. Pity.

And finally, only about half of all illegals sneak in from Mexico. The rest simply overstay their visas. The wall does nothing to prevent that, which brings us back to the cost-benefit issue. We're talking about an awful lot of money for half a solution.

Long story short, it's a classic big government boondoggle that will fail to solve half of a non-existent problem while costing the taxpayers untold billions and lining the pockets of contractors with connections. It's precisely the kind of thing that Republicans always accused Democrats of doing.
Why the lies? The Mexican government for years has taught their people how to not only sneak into America,but once here,how to thwart our immigration laws.The reason illegal immigration has dropped is because of Trump and the fact that he is using ICE to go after the criminal illegal immigrants now.Mexico has their own border wall to prevent illegal immigration into Mexico and so it is hypocritcal of them to act like it is wrong for America to build a wall to protect our border.Walls do work,and yes there are areas where a wall cannot be built,but you increase border security agents in them areas with drones,etc.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.
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edwardmurphy
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Re: Trump and the Wall

Post by edwardmurphy »

Where do you get this ridiculous [nonsense]?
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Re: Trump and the Wall

Post by Hortator »

It's more about the symbolism of the wall than the actual deterrence. Is illegal immigration dropping? Yes, but the why is important: self-deportation is increasing. What that means is illegals know they will soon be caught breaking the law since for the first time in who-knows, the Fed is going to enforce illegal immigration laws. And so people are going back to their country of origin by their own choice. (a lovely word)

Just the knowledge that someone with a backbone is in power is enough to at least halt some crime before it blooms. And there are a lot of bad hombres among the illegals that come over: drug smugglers, arms dealers, human traffickers, and possibly even terrorists.

Sorry Beto, sorry Rosa, but we need to know who you are before you can come through the golden door. You might be nice guys and gals. Or you might be serial killers. Let's just check to see, hmm?
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Re: Trump and the Wall

Post by Philip »

RickD wrote:
That's racist and xenophobic.
Ed: Yeah, it is a bit, but that misses the point.
Liberals who spout this stuff, never think like that on a personal level, when it comes to security, their own homes, and those they love - no way are they willing to tolerate unnecessary and illegal goings on that will compromise the safety of such.
Ed: First off, people aren't "pouring over our border." Illegal immigration is actually down.
What are you smoking, Ed - people have been pouring across our border for a very long time. Ever read any articles or interviews with border security - they all have said border security has long been a joke - perhaps better now, but still. And why should we obey ANY law, if it's just a joke open to be ignored? But Ed, your arguments are all and only about the here and now - "oh, there's not real problem, it's all hype by right-wing media and bigots." The problem is, over a very long period, this most certainly leads to increased crime and very likely, terrorism. But your approach is all about waiting until an issue is a huge or dangerous problem before we should be concerned about it. That's just brain-dead thinking. It's a whole lot easier to maintain our safety proactively. Countries in Europe have seen great turmoil in just a short period of immigrants coming in, mostly unvetted - and that's without even considering the terrorism issue.

Knowing there most certainly are criminals and dangerous people trying to get in our country, why would you not want EVERYONE coming in screened? What level of criminals coming in is acceptable to you? Why should anyone be allowed to just ignore our laws? And if you think that is just fine, in this case, why care about any law that is ignored? Please answer these questions.
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Re: Trump and the Wall

Post by Nessa »

Hortator wrote:It's more about the symbolism of the wall than the actual deterrence. Is illegal immigration dropping? Yes, but the why is important: self-deportation is increasing. What that means is illegals know they will soon be caught breaking the law since for the first time in who-knows, the Fed is going to enforce illegal immigration laws. And so people are going back to their country of origin by their own choice. (a lovely word)

Just the knowledge that someone with a backbone is in power is enough to at least halt some crime before it blooms. And there are a lot of bad hombres among the illegals that come over: drug smugglers, arms dealers, human traffickers, and possibly even terrorists.

Sorry Beto, sorry Rosa, but we need to know who you are before you can come through the golden door. You might be nice guys and gals. Or you might be serial killers. Let's just check to see, hmm?
are you saying serial killers cant be nice? y:-?
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Re: Trump and the Wall

Post by Philip »

Crime by illegals - only in Texas - over just a six-year span (per the Texas Department of Public Safety):

According to DHS status indicators, over 217,000 criminal aliens have been booked into local Texas jails between June 1, 2011 and March 31, 2017. During their criminal careers, these criminal aliens were charged with more than 579,000 criminal offenses. Those arrests include 1,179 homicide charges; 68,900 assault charges; 16,854 burglary charges; 68,999 drug charges; 699 kidnapping charges; 40,818 theft charges; 45,104 obstructing police charges; 3,813 robbery charges; 6,190 sexual assault charges; and 8,693 weapons charges.

Remember, that is in Texas only.

Yeah, who comes in illegally - no big deal ... :shakehead:
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Re: Trump and the Wall

Post by ultimate777 »

edwardmurphy wrote:
RickD wrote:That's racist and xenophobic.
Yeah, it is a bit, but that misses the point.

First off, people aren't "pouring over our border." Illegal immigration is actually down. They're not stealing our jobs, either. The jobs that Trump's base want back were lost primarily due to automation. A wall isn't going to keep your corporate overlords from replacing you and your buddies with robots.

Second, a big wall isn't going to prevent people from sneaking in, it's just going to make it more difficult. That's fine - it should be difficult - but there's a major cost-benefit issue. The wall will cost who knows how many billions of dollars to build and billions more to maintain. There are far better uses for that money. Things like airports, bridges, ports, railroads, and power grid improvements will help our economy and pay for a themselves over time. The wall will just suck up billions of tax dollars anually forever. One would think the supposedly fiscally conservative party would grasp that, but apparently they got their cojones snipped during the last election cycle. Pity.

And finally, only about half of all illegals sneak in from Mexico. The rest simply overstay their visas. The wall does nothing to prevent that, which brings us back to the cost-benefit issue. We're talking about an awful lot of money for half a solution.

Long story short, it's a classic big government boondoggle that will fail to solve half of a non-existent problem while costing the taxpayers untold billions and lining the pockets of contractors with connections. It's precisely the kind of thing that Republicans always accused Democrats of doing.
You say it one way, Ed, I say it another. It comes down to basically the same truth.
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Re: Trump and the Wall

Post by ultimate777 »

abelcainsbrother wrote:Trump has not even negotiated with Mexico yet about the trade defecit,but when he does? Mexico will pay for the wall and there will be plenty of money left over to go towards improving America's infrastructure.Remember,Trump thinks like a businessman,not a politician.But their free-ride off of America is going to stop because Trump is putting America and the American people first,something both parties refuse to do.
Just exactly how is he going to make Mexico pay? You don't know,unless its tariffs, which Americans pay, not Mexico.
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Re: Trump and the Wall

Post by ultimate777 »

Hortator wrote:It's more about the symbolism of the wall than the actual deterrence. Is illegal immigration dropping? Yes, but the why is important: self-deportation is increasing. What that means is illegals know they will soon be caught breaking the law since for the first time in who-knows, the Fed is going to enforce illegal immigration laws. And so people are going back to their country of origin by their own choice. (a lovely word)

Just the knowledge that someone with a backbone is in power is enough to at least halt some crime before it blooms. And there are a lot of bad hombres among the illegals that come over: drug smugglers, arms dealers, human traffickers, and possibly even terrorists.

Sorry Beto, sorry Rosa, but we need to know who you are before you can come through the golden door. You might be nice guys and gals. Or you might be serial killers. Let's just check to see, hmm?

Self-deportation IS decreasing, but only because the economy in the USA has been down.
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Re: Trump and the Wall

Post by RickD »

ultimate777 wrote:
edwardmurphy wrote:
RickD wrote:That's racist and xenophobic.
Yeah, it is a bit, but that misses the point.

First off, people aren't "pouring over our border." Illegal immigration is actually down. They're not stealing our jobs, either. The jobs that Trump's base want back were lost primarily due to automation. A wall isn't going to keep your corporate overlords from replacing you and your buddies with robots.

Second, a big wall isn't going to prevent people from sneaking in, it's just going to make it more difficult. That's fine - it should be difficult - but there's a major cost-benefit issue. The wall will cost who knows how many billions of dollars to build and billions more to maintain. There are far better uses for that money. Things like airports, bridges, ports, railroads, and power grid improvements will help our economy and pay for a themselves over time. The wall will just suck up billions of tax dollars anually forever. One would think the supposedly fiscally conservative party would grasp that, but apparently they got their cojones snipped during the last election cycle. Pity.

And finally, only about half of all illegals sneak in from Mexico. The rest simply overstay their visas. The wall does nothing to prevent that, which brings us back to the cost-benefit issue. We're talking about an awful lot of money for half a solution.

Long story short, it's a classic big government boondoggle that will fail to solve half of a non-existent problem while costing the taxpayers untold billions and lining the pockets of contractors with connections. It's precisely the kind of thing that Republicans always accused Democrats of doing.
You say it one way, Ed, I say it another. It comes down to basically the same truth.
That's subjective truth, right?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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